QuoteReplyTopic: High school riding time Posted: Mar 23 2018 at 8:43am
Just something to think about and workshop over this long off season. Obviously it can not be done the same as at the college level, but what about the idea of receiving a riding time point for riding out an opponent for the entirety of one period. However getting a stalling call would nullify that point. I don't think that would be to difficult to keep track of at the score table. Also it gives value to the under appreciated skill of being able to ride a guy out in high school. Just looking for your thoughts to pass the time until November.
I personally feel like that might dull the sport down. Lose some of the excitement. I'd rather see a great wrestle pill on the points with take downs and escapes, then watch him ride on top for two minutes. That's just my opinion.
I think riding time in High School would stop growing our sport. The really good kids would dominate and ride the less experienced kids who wouldn't come back out or finish the season because they can't compete. They may have a really good Shot and not be able to get out of bottom. The really good kids could become bored too. As a fan, I enjoy matches with some action.
I think riding time could help improve mat wrestling. At the very least it would be more incentive for the bottom wrestler to try to escape as it would be 1 pt for them and 1 less pt for the other guy. I don't think it would dull the sport at all. I personally enjoy watching mat wrestling as much as from neutral. In fact a lot of my favorite wrestlers were great on top, like Zain, Logan Steiber, David Taylor, Ed Ruth, etc. being able to turn elite wrestlers is not easy, but fun to watch.
True, and that would still be an option for wrestlers who are strong on their feet. My thinking was for closer matches, add another component to your decision the toss. And to encourage wrestling toward the end of close matches, weather it’s the bottom guy getting out to save the point or the top guy to not get hit for stalling and get rewarded a point.
The top wrestling in PA is out of this world, it literally makes college coaches drool. Heard one D1 coach say at PIAA that his assistant was at Ohios state tournament and there was any riding, he said "Well out here these kids pick top down 1 going into the third and rather lose riding him out than cut him and go on their feet." That was a bit of an exaggeration, but these kids are unreal on the mat and don't think a riding time point is necessary.
1. I wouldn't mind seeing them bring the wrestlers up to neutral after a minute of riding. They do something similar at the ohio tournament of champions and in freestyle.
2. I also wouldn't mind seeing them adopt the push out rule for the upper weights only.
*People want to see guys put points up on the board.
I kinda like the original suggestion on this thread:
a point for riding out the period if no stalling is called.
PA is known for having hammers on top. That's what we do (to coin a phrase). College rules award a riding time point. Why not high school, too? By giving a point in high school, with the codicil that there must not be any stalling, we would be encouraging our hammers. What's wrong with that?
I think folkstyle is close enough to freestyle without any more rule changes encouraging people to dance for 6 minutes. What could be more boring? If I want to watch people dance, I'll go to the prom.
I admit to a prejudice, since one of my biggest matches in high school was decided by riding time point- and I needed it. OT would have killed me.
Still, mat wrestling is what differentiates folkstyle from freestyle, and except for a few freestyle fanatics, the majority of true Americans prefer the American method of wrestling. Just sayin'
Still, mat wrestling is what differentiates folkstyle from freestyle, and except for a few freestyle fanatics, >>>>>>the majority of true Americans prefer the American method of wrestling.<<<<<<< Just sayin'
[/QUOTE wrote:
Careful there OC. Continue on that path, and next thing you know you'll be advocating for a new Know Nothing party, reading "Conscience of a Conservative", or heaven forbid wear a MAGA hat.
Riding time in HS would only promote more parallel rides. Now if stalling for parallel riding was called consistently, that could change my mind, but I'm not holding my breath for that.
1. I wouldn't mind seeing them bring the wrestlers up to neutral after a minute of riding. They do something similar at the ohio tournament of champions and in freestyle.
2. I also wouldn't mind seeing them adopt the push out rule for the upper weights only.
*People want to see guys put points up on the board.
You can't have a rule that only applies to certain weights, besides the push lout rule, IMHO, is the stupidest rule in wrestling. Where is the wrestling technique involved in a push out.
I think riding time in High School would stop growing our sport. The really good kids would dominate and ride the less experienced kids who wouldn't come back out or finish the season because they can't compete. They may have a really good Shot and not be able to get out of bottom. The really good kids could become bored too. As a fan, I enjoy matches with some action.
The really good kids already dominate and are bored in 90% of their matches. If you don't want to be ridden don't take down. "Really good kids" aren't going to take top against an inferior wrestler because they can score more points on their feet.
the suggestion at the top of this string is a creative solution to the problem of stalling in order to get riding time.
Some of the top wrestlers in the country make their living off of being a hammer on top. A few that come to mind: Zane Retherford, Spencer Lee, Ethan Lizak.
The number of matches where both wrestlers spend just a few seconds on top and then the other guy escapes is way over the top. How are wrestlers to learn how to pin if they spend their time on their feet?
I understand the people who want to end folkstyle and switch totally to freestyle not liking this idea. They don't want top riding because it won't work in freestyle. But everyone else should be encouraging learning to be a hammer on top. How many 1-1 matches go into OT today? Way too many. No takedown 1st period. quick escape 2nd period, 1-0. quick escape 3rd period, 1-1. OT.
It doesn't have to be that way. One of the wrestlers might learn how to wrestle from the top. The top man might actually attempt a pinning hold or two.
Killian Delaney is making himself into a hammer on top. He gets on top and the bottom guy suffers. From my POV, he's a pleasure to watch.
Riding time or no riding time, the central issue remains: learn how to be a hammer on top and your chances to succeed increase substantially.
From John "J-Rock" Johnson, who runs the RAW21 program: The 2018 NCAA finals have concluded. Remarkably, even with the 20 most skilled folk style grapplers on the planet, only 2 of them were able to muster back points from the top position (advantage position/offense). By contrast, as it pertains to the neutral position - 9 of 10 Champions earned a takedown. TURNING a stallion is hard. Riding time does not equal a turn...even then, that’s a tough road to hoe. Thankfully, guys like Cael Sanderson go on to win 4 NCAA titles w/o turning any of his finals opponents (but taking all of them down); guys like Greg Jones capture 3 NCAA titles w/o ever turning a finals opponent (but took them down 12 times & surrendered none); guys like Stephen Abas nab 3 NCAA gold medals w/o tallying a single set of backs from top; World/Olympic Champion Kyle Snyder parked up top of the NCAA podium 3 times and only doomed his opponents with a takedown mindset (no turns from top); Olympic Champion/World Champion Jordan Burroughs ran amuck at NCAAs two times and earned a grand total of zero back points from top in finals, while taking each opponent down in both national title bids. The theme here is takedowns...if you’re keeping score at home EACH of the aforementioned stars have World level medals 🅠to hang their hats on. The transition to freestyle/international success seems more closely related to these types of performers than it does a mat wrestler. The current freestyle rules really cater to this brand of grappler.
Bill - Didn't want to copy that entire article to respond. So just because the 10 finals bouts at the NCAAs this year that didn't have a turn the idea of being a hammer on top and working to turn people is a bad one. I know you are a freestyle aficionado, I like it too but there is room for more than one style in this world. Actually there is room fro 3! The good top wrestlers like the 3 OC mentioned are always working to turn their opponent, they are not always successful because the opponent is pretty good too, but they are always trying. Similarly, the TD artists mentioned in the article you posted are always trying to take down their opponent, they weren't always successful but they tried. Same effort, same result in a lot of cases. Also, its easier to take a good wrestler down than turn them. If this wasn't the case then there wouldn't be so many wrestlers who only want to wrestle on their feet. Being able to turn people is just another tool for your toolbox. I like watching these TD artists try to wrestle in the TB when they have to ride someone, you're an AA and cannot ride for 30 seconds, hmm.
The way you win in Hs wrestling is on your feet always has been always will be. The problem with riding time in Hs is the ref' s in different districts call stalling one way and in another district completely different.If the calls were more uniformed I could see it working.As far as Johnny goes if he could ride a,little,bit he,would have dominated at the national level.
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