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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dodfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2023 at 9:00am
Originally posted by Russiantie43 Russiantie43 wrote:

Originally posted by rechall rechall wrote:

Originally posted by Russiantie43 Russiantie43 wrote:

Originally posted by DelcoProper DelcoProper wrote:

Originally posted by Russiantie43 Russiantie43 wrote:

Originally posted by Dodfan Dodfan wrote:

I hope that ref at 160 is very pleased with himself. That is the worst call in the history of the state tournament. 
it’s tough but I believe by rule that’s the correct call. It’s never called and shouldn’t have been implemented there as Taylor clearly wasn’t trying to stall but standing up after the boot comes in is clear cut

Not the correct call

The bottom guy is already limited in ways to score.  Potentially dangerous and put them back down.

Eventually the bottom guy will change his approach, but he’s definitely not stalling.
he stood up twice in a row with a leg in, it sucks and maybe their need to be different rules for UTB but if the top man threw a leg in on their feet twice and got banged I feel like a lot less people would be complaining 
It's much more obvious when the top wrestler throws a leg in late to force a potentially dangerous call. In this case, you're certain the bottom wrestler hadn't started his standup before the top wrestler threw in the leg? Looked to me like it all happened in one motion. Also, it happened twice! Twice! You don't make that call in that situation. Unfortunately, I think the referee let the moment get the better of him. I actually thought he had done a nice job for the entire match up to that point in not letting the CV coach talk him into earlier stall calls as Evans wasn't trying to initiate action with his pushing, but none of that matters now. 
his hands were posted on the mat both times the leg came in, and then he took his hands off to stand up. Again I hate that call in that moment.

I really didn't think anyone would be defending that. You proved me wrong. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dodfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2023 at 9:10am
In my time in absolute disgust from what happened to Shawn Taylor, I have missed the real story of Collin Gaj. What a season! He beat everyone put in front of him and he did it for his hometown school. I'm sure he was "courted" by these wrestling powers but instead of being one of many, now he's a legend!

Also, (cue the outrage machine) Collin Gaj is the best District 1 wrestler since Chris Kwortnik. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldcougar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2023 at 10:02am
Originally posted by Dodfan Dodfan wrote:

In my time in absolute disgust from what happened to Shawn Taylor, I have missed the real story of Collin Gaj. What a season! He beat everyone put in front of him and he did it for his hometown school. I'm sure he was "courted" by these wrestling powers but instead of being one of many, now he's a legend!

Also, (cue the outrage machine) Collin Gaj is the best District 1 wrestler since Chris Kwortnik. 

Slow down there, Dodfan.  You're ready to anoint Gaj as the greatest in the last 35 years, and I'm not too sure about THIS year. How many District 1 wrestlers have decked the returning state champ in the first period of the state finals, ever?
I know I can't remember any, except one: Adam Waters
There are three extraordinary wrestlers in D1 right now. I'd kinda like to wait a couple of years until we decide who is the GOAT.

and when talking about extraordinary seasons, you've gotta consider Zach Kemmerer's 2006 year. He was 54-0, won Ironman and won the Beast of the East.  Can't get much more iconic than that.





Edited by oldcougar - Mar 12 2023 at 10:38am
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1. I truly hope Hayden McLellan is ok - if someone from Stoga can update his condition that would be great. I happened to have that stream on when it occurred, and you could immediately tell by his reaction, the opponent reaction and then the first trainer who got there that it was a bad injury.

2. Gaj is phenomenal. Obviously Church is a really good wrestler, but he seemed to have no plan other than I guess piss Gaj off and hope he makes a mistake?

3. Lost in the shuffle is Sement losing his first round match and then fighting all the way to 3rd. Really good performance from him if you look at his path, and I could see him taking a big leap off this.

4. I have always said I prefer folkstyle, but every time I watch these high level tourneys I gain a greater appreciation for those that prefer free. Both Taylor matches yesterday are a good example - Evans was trying to drip 3 seconds off the clock on every restart in UTB by jumping on his back and got rewarded for it (by the rules too!) and in the semifinal Taylor straddled the boundary for the entire match after getting the first 2. There is an art to boundary wrestling in folk, but the matches can get really boring if there are no stalling calls coming.

5. High School out of bounds has got to be adjusted. The mat is too small for kids of this level (gets worse the higher the weight class) and the refs cant call it consistently as the rule is written.

6. What is it with Jake Neill matches and refs screwing up calls / changing their minds / causing 5-10 minute delays? I dont know if it was definitely two, but the ref cant call that in SV and then say oops my bad, sorry.

7. Congrats to Faith on their tremendous record setting performance. Are McCort kids eligible for post season next year (and will they stay in PIAA)? That might be the only thing that could keep FCA from shattering the overall record.

8. I want to see Adam Waters vs Dillon Bechtold at a catch weight.

Edited by B1Gfan - Mar 12 2023 at 10:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldcougar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2023 at 11:33am
Church tried to bully Gaj, but Collin just wasn't having it. That was a disgraceful performance by Church. He should have been DQ'd. With all of his antics, it didn't give Gaj a chance to showcase his abilities. The semi-final bout was far more illustrative of Gaj's dominant abilities.  He strikes like a snake when he shoots - tremendous speed and self-control. 

and Dodfan, while watching the semi's, I was also taken by how great Gaj is. Not Kwortnik-great yet maybe, but getting there. Remember, when Kwortnik was winning states as a Sophomore, he rode roughshod over the weight class, including a first period pin in the finals.

We have 2 sophomores and a freshman who should make a tremendous impact on District 1 history. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dodfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2023 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by oldcougar oldcougar wrote:

Originally posted by Dodfan Dodfan wrote:

In my time in absolute disgust from what happened to Shawn Taylor, I have missed the real story of Collin Gaj. What a season! He beat everyone put in front of him and he did it for his hometown school. I'm sure he was "courted" by these wrestling powers but instead of being one of many, now he's a legend!

Also, (cue the outrage machine) Collin Gaj is the best District 1 wrestler since Chris Kwortnik. 

Slow down there, Dodfan.  You're ready to anoint Gaj as the greatest in the last 35 years, and I'm not too sure about THIS year. How many District 1 wrestlers have decked the returning state champ in the first period of the state finals, ever?
I know I can't remember any, except one: Adam Waters


You really just made that comparison?

I'm hoping that I'm reading this wrong, you aren't sold Gaj is the best wrestler in District 1 right now?
 


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Hayden is doing okay. He fractured  his tibia and fibula and had a 5 hour surgery yesterday where they put in rods.   He is  still in the hospital but hopefully will be going home tomorrow if the pain can be managed. No cast or anything which is amazing he will be on crutches but they want him walking asap. Thanks for mentioning him. It was a tough one for sure. But he is a strong kid! 

Edited by Wrestlingmom1677 - Mar 12 2023 at 6:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulAtreides Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2023 at 7:55pm
Originally posted by Dodfan Dodfan wrote:

Originally posted by oldcougar oldcougar wrote:

Originally posted by Dodfan Dodfan wrote:

In my time in absolute disgust from what happened to Shawn Taylor, I have missed the real story of Collin Gaj. What a season! He beat everyone put in front of him and he did it for his hometown school. I'm sure he was "courted" by these wrestling powers but instead of being one of many, now he's a legend!

Also, (cue the outrage machine) Collin Gaj is the best District 1 wrestler since Chris Kwortnik. 

Slow down there, Dodfan.  You're ready to anoint Gaj as the greatest in the last 35 years, and I'm not too sure about THIS year. How many District 1 wrestlers have decked the returning state champ in the first period of the state finals, ever?
I know I can't remember any, except one: Adam Waters


You really just made that comparison?

I'm hoping that I'm reading this wrong, you aren't sold Gaj is the best wrestler in District 1 right now?
 



It's a matter of opinion isn't it? It's not like they can wrestle, though I would like to see how Waters would do against Rocco Welsh. I suspect he wouldn't win, but he might perform as well or better than Furman - a Cornell recruit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Dodfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2023 at 8:02pm
Originally posted by Wrestlingmom1677 Wrestlingmom1677 wrote:

Hayden is doing okay. He fractured  his tibia and fibula and had a 5 hour surgery yesterday where they put in rods.   He is  still in the hospital but hopefully will be going home tomorrow if the pain can be managed. No cast or anything which is amazing he will be on crutches but they want him walking asap. Thanks for mentioning him. It was a tough one for sure. But he is a strong kid! 

I hope he recovers fast! You hate to see any injury but that's a real tough one. I read somewhere a while ago that Joe Thiesmann tries to reach out to all athletes that sustain that injury. 

I hope he feels better soon. I'm praying for him. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rechall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 12 2023 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by PaulAtreides PaulAtreides wrote:

Originally posted by Dodfan Dodfan wrote:

Originally posted by oldcougar oldcougar wrote:

Originally posted by Dodfan Dodfan wrote:

In my time in absolute disgust from what happened to Shawn Taylor, I have missed the real story of Collin Gaj. What a season! He beat everyone put in front of him and he did it for his hometown school. I'm sure he was "courted" by these wrestling powers but instead of being one of many, now he's a legend!

Also, (cue the outrage machine) Collin Gaj is the best District 1 wrestler since Chris Kwortnik. 

Slow down there, Dodfan.  You're ready to anoint Gaj as the greatest in the last 35 years, and I'm not too sure about THIS year. How many District 1 wrestlers have decked the returning state champ in the first period of the state finals, ever?
I know I can't remember any, except one: Adam Waters


You really just made that comparison?

I'm hoping that I'm reading this wrong, you aren't sold Gaj is the best wrestler in District 1 right now?
 



It's a matter of opinion isn't it? It's not like they can wrestle, though I would like to see how Waters would do against Rocco Welsh. I suspect he wouldn't win, but he might perform as well or better than Furman - a Cornell recruit.
I know it was preseason, and a lot of time has passed since then, but they actually wrestled in the round of 16 at Super 32 this year. Welsh beat Waters 3-1. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldcougar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 13 2023 at 12:34am
Originally posted by Dodfan Dodfan wrote:


You really just made that comparison?

I'm hoping that I'm reading this wrong, you aren't sold Gaj is the best wrestler in District 1 right now?
 

You must have read it wrong. I'm not sold that Gaj is the greatest D1 wrestler since Kwortnik. We've had a few pretty good wrestlers since then -- Mike Pirozzola, Justin Giavinco, Jermaine Jones,  Zach Fryling and a whole family of Rappos may have a thing or two to say about it. 

AND FCA has a couple of kids who are developing on a similar path with several years to go before a comparison about relative impact can be reached. At this point in time, Gaj is probably the best wrestler in District 1.  That's about as far as I'm prepared to commit to.




Edited by oldcougar - Mar 13 2023 at 3:34pm
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Originally posted by Wrestlingmom1677 Wrestlingmom1677 wrote:

Hayden is doing okay. He fractured  his tibia and fibula and had a 5 hour surgery yesterday where they put in rods.   He is  still in the hospital but hopefully will be going home tomorrow if the pain can be managed. No cast or anything which is amazing he will be on crutches but they want him walking asap. Thanks for mentioning him. It was a tough one for sure. But he is a strong kid! 


Thanks - hope he is headed home today. Im sure he will be in good shape when he hits a college campus in the fall!
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There really needs to be a distinction between athletes that reclass prior to starting high school and those that don't.  It should be noted in the same way it is for college athletes that take a redshirt year.  Its right there on the college roster: RSFR.  Athletes that don't reclass and are successful should be recognized for the accomplishment.  Kyle Dake did not take a redshirt year in college and it was frequently noted in any discussion of his college career.  He won the NCAA as a 'true freshman'.  Its also interesting to note that he did not reclass prior to entering high school.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lewiebakes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 13 2023 at 3:07pm
@Dodfan

Adam Waters is the best wrestler in District 1. He was a penalty point away from having an undefeated freshman year where he went Tech - Pin - Pin - Pin thru his first PIAA tournament. Earning him the outstanding wrestler award. If you add his summer accomplishments (Fargo 3rd FS + 2nd GR) I think that makes him a clear choice, as he seems to show a high level of skill in all 3 styles.
How can you expect to beat your opponent, when you’re not willing to outwork them?
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Waters is a great wrestler, no doubt.  He is the same age as Gaj but he's a freshman.  Waters also goes to a private school that has nationally ranked wrestlers in just about every weight class, many of whom are also a year older than their grade.  Gaj goes to Quakertown, while certainly a good team, he is in a league of his own in the practice room.  Finally, Gaj wresltes 3A, which has more depth and more competitive for the top 8 places at states.  i don't think its possible to compare them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lewiebakes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 13 2023 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by Chinwhipped Chinwhipped wrote:

Waters is a great wrestler, no doubt.  He is the same age as Gaj but he's a freshman.  Waters also goes to a private school that has nationally ranked wrestlers in just about every weight class, many of whom are also a year older than their grade.  Gaj goes to Quakertown, while certainly a good team, he is in a league of his own in the practice room.  Finally, Gaj wresltes 3A, which has more depth and more competitive for the top 8 places at states.  i don't think its possible to compare them.

I don’t want to let the facts get in the way of your argument, but FCA has 2 nationally ranked wrestlers (Botero and Waters). I didn’t say anything in my post to downplay the amazing wrestler that Colin is - and I won’t do it here. But my argument is that within age group Waters took 3rd and 2nd in the international styles at the national tournament, and went thru his regular season with his only loss being on a penalty point in OT (that he avenged later that day). To then go into his first state tournament (at any age) and demolish the field to the tune of being named the tournament outstanding wrestler; first time in District 1 history that has happened, and only the 2nd time ever….

I rest my case. Adam Waters is the best wrestler in District 1 - Colin Gaj is the best wrestler in district 1 AAA. 
How can you expect to beat your opponent, when you’re not willing to outwork them?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dodfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 13 2023 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by lewiebakes lewiebakes wrote:

@Dodfan

Adam Waters is the best wrestler in District 1. He was a penalty point away from having an undefeated freshman year where he went Tech - Pin - Pin - Pin thru his first PIAA tournament. Earning him the outstanding wrestler award. If you add his summer accomplishments (Fargo 3rd FS + 2nd GR) I think that makes him a clear choice, as he seems to show a high level of skill in all 3 styles.

You're educated in wrestling. You are also a top-notch ref. Do you honestly believe that Adam Waters is as good as Collin Gaj? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DPointer492 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 13 2023 at 5:09pm
Adam Waters is not as good as Collin Gaj

He is better.
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Originally posted by oldcougar oldcougar wrote:

Originally posted by Dodfan Dodfan wrote:


You really just made that comparison?

I'm hoping that I'm reading this wrong, you aren't sold Gaj is the best wrestler in District 1 right now?
 

You must have read it wrong. I'm not sold that Gaj is the greatest D1 wrestler since Kwortnik. We've had a few pretty good wrestlers since then -- Mike Pirozzola, Justin Giavinco, Jermaine Jones,  Zach Fryling and a whole family of Rappos may have a thing or two to say about it. 

AND FCA has a couple of kids who are developing on a similar path with several years to go before a comparison about relative impact can be reached. At this point in time, Gaj is probably the best wrestler in District 1.  That's about as far as I'm prepared to commit to.



Do you think any of those guy (except Kwortnik obviously) would beat Collin Gaj of 2023?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote botero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 13 2023 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by lewiebakes lewiebakes wrote:

@Dodfan

Adam Waters is the best wrestler in District 1. He was a penalty point away from having an undefeated freshman year where he went Tech - Pin - Pin - Pin thru his first PIAA tournament. Earning him the outstanding wrestler award. If you add his summer accomplishments (Fargo 3rd FS + 2nd GR) I think that makes him a clear choice, as he seems to show a high level of skill in all 3 styles.

BuT hE wAs HeLd BaCk LOL
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