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B1Gfan
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 1:26pm |
Call it political or whatever you want, it definitely lacks transparency. For every other District 1 sport this is at the top of their general information page -
SEED MEETING: Sunday, February 9, 2025 - 10AM Meeting for all Steering Committee Reps in all classifications. This is an open meeting, all coaches are welcome to attend.
SEED MEETING ZOOM LINK
For wrestling you get this -
Team Duals Seeding Meeting: 1/19/25 - TBA
Thus smoke filled room comments, especially with no way to separate teams other than opinion, and a 16 team field in a district with 60+ teams.
Edited by B1Gfan - Jan 23 2025 at 1:28pm
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ChuckFalzioli
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 1:48pm |
mo bloodyoung wrote:
ChuckFalzioli wrote:
I agree. It is way too political. |
How is it political? lol
The only teams from the rankings that didn't make the bracket were Kennett and Downingtown West. West has losses to W. C. Henderson and Avon Grove. Avon Grove has losses to Great Valley and Lower Merion but also a win over Pennsbury, who is the 6 seed. Pennsbury also has losses to Garnet and Pennridge, but seeded over both. But Pennridge has a loss to Souderton, who lost to C. B. West who lost to C. B. East who lost to Downingtown West and the cycle goes on and on. | You've never been to one of the meetings bud, you wouldn't get it. You're using the arbitrary rankings as your standard, which is also political.
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Chinwhipped
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 2:07pm |
ChuckFalzioli wrote:
mo bloodyoung wrote:
ChuckFalzioli wrote:
I agree. It is way too political. |
How is it political? lol
The only teams from the rankings that didn't make the bracket were Kennett and Downingtown West. West has losses to W. C. Henderson and Avon Grove. Avon Grove has losses to Great Valley and Lower Merion but also a win over Pennsbury, who is the 6 seed. Pennsbury also has losses to Garnet and Pennridge, but seeded over both. But Pennridge has a loss to Souderton, who lost to C. B. West who lost to C. B. East who lost to Downingtown West and the cycle goes on and on. |
You've never been to one of the meetings bud, you wouldn't get it.
You're using the arbitrary rankings as your standard, which is also political. |
Vote yourself into the D1 team rankings and then vote yourself into District Duals. But don't let anyone look at your actual record. Not trying to pick on any one team so I'll just pick one here at random and wait for someone to explain the process by which they are in the sweet 16 - https://www.pa-wrestling.com/hs/teams/owenjroberts/schedule.htmIt seems that the 14 seed lost to the 15 seed twice this season. lol
Edited by Chinwhipped - Jan 23 2025 at 2:11pm
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No offense intended, none taken
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mo bloodyoung
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 2:17pm |
For the record, this is who qualified to state duals from District 1, by seeds, the last 10 years
2024: 1, 2, 3, 4 2023: 3, 4, 1, 6 2022: 2, 1, 4, 3 2020: 3, 1, 2, 13 2019: 1, 2, 3, 5 2018: 1, 3, 2, 4 2017: 2, 1, 4, 6 2016: 1, 2, 3, 4 2015: 1, 2, 3, 4 2014: 1, 3, 5, 4
Meaning the top 4 seeds have qualified for states 87% of the time the last decade.
Now 6A basketball, which uses a power point system, who finished in the top 4 the last decade? 2024: 1, 14, 2, 4 2023: 3, 1, 2, 5 2022: 2, 12, 3, 1 2020: 1, 3, 4, 7 2019: 1, 2, 3, 4 2018: 1, 2, 3, 4 2017: 4, 3, 2, 8 2016: 2, 9, 4, 11 2015: 4, 6, 7, 9 2014: 2, 5, 1, 14
Which makes it 72% of the time the top 4 seeds finished in the top 4.
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mo bloodyoung
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 2:20pm |
Chinwhipped wrote:
Vote yourself into the D1 team rankings and then vote yourself into District Duals. But don't let anyone look at your actual record. Not trying to pick on any one team so I'll just pick one here at random and wait for someone to explain the process by which they are in the sweet 16 - https://www.pa-wrestling.com/hs/teams/owenjroberts/schedule.htmIt seems that the 14 seed lost to the 15 seed twice this season. lol
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In this instance, if you were Neshaminy, wouldn't you rather face Boyertown instead of Council Rock South for a second time? Those 2 will see each other all postseason too. Same with Owen J. if they would've flip-flopped spots, facing Boyertown in back to back days.
Seems like that move was more practical than anything.
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Chinwhipped
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 2:58pm |
mo bloodyoung wrote:
Chinwhipped wrote:
Vote yourself into the D1 team rankings and then vote yourself into District Duals. But don't let anyone look at your actual record. Not trying to pick on any one team so I'll just pick one here at random and wait for someone to explain the process by which they are in the sweet 16 - https://www.pa-wrestling.com/hs/teams/owenjroberts/schedule.htmIt seems that the 14 seed lost to the 15 seed twice this season. lol
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In this instance, if you were Neshaminy, wouldn't you rather face Boyertown instead of Council Rock South for a second time? Those 2 will see each other all postseason too. Same with Owen J. if they would've flip-flopped spots, facing Boyertown in back to back days.
Seems like that move was more practical than anything. |
No. I'm trying to figure out how many Benjamins it takes to get a pigtail match at this tournament. I'm not sure you realize that you are describing what most people commonly refer to as a smoke filled room.
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mo bloodyoung
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:39pm |
Chinwhipped wrote:
No. I'm trying to figure out how many Benjamins it takes to get a pigtail match at this tournament. I'm not sure you realize that you are describing what most people commonly refer to as a smoke filled room. |
I still don't understand what your gripe is. Who got screwed in your mind?
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B1Gfan
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:45pm |
mo bloodyoung wrote:
For the record, this is who qualified to state duals from District 1, by seeds, the last 10 years
2024: 1, 2, 3, 4 2023: 3, 4, 1, 6 2022: 2, 1, 4, 3 2020: 3, 1, 2, 13 2019: 1, 2, 3, 5 2018: 1, 3, 2, 4 2017: 2, 1, 4, 6 2016: 1, 2, 3, 4 2015: 1, 2, 3, 4 2014: 1, 3, 5, 4
Meaning the top 4 seeds have qualified for states 87% of the time the last decade.Â
Now 6A basketball, which uses a power point system, who finished in the top 4 the last decade? 2024: 1, 14, 2, 4 2023: 3, 1, 2, 5 2022: 2, 12, 3, 1 2020: 1, 3, 4, 7 2019: 1, 2, 3, 4 2018: 1, 2, 3, 4 2017: 4, 3, 2, 8 2016: 2, 9, 4, 11 2015: 4, 6, 7, 9 2014: 2, 5, 1, 14
Which makes it 72% of the time the top 4 seeds finished in the top 4. | So does it only matter if your team qualifies for states? One of the first steps to growing a program is facing bigger challenges / situations. In AAA wrestling only 16/61 (28%) get to experience team postseason, pretty sure that is the smallest % in district 1 sports by quite a bit. I doubt they get 32 teams to ask for consideration, but if they did (that was the expectation) and tonight was 8 groups of 4 (or they even had 24 and it was 8 groups of 3) it would be much closer to every other sport. They have actually expanded from 24 to 28 district 1 postseason berths in recent years in many of the other sports, wrestling feels like it contracts and closes up shop, then people complain about growing the sport.
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MTLeister
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:45pm |
Some Districts literally just use team winning percentage for their Duals seeding process. No issues there, right?
Most of the Districts that use a power rankings formula for wrestling have major complaints every year, way more than you see in District 1, IMHO.
Something most people don't realize... teams have to submit to enter the District Duals. That's the case in District 1 and I believe almost all the others as well. Every year there are teams which decide not to enter that likely would have qualified had they entered. So if your team didn't get picked, they either didn't enter or didn't make the cut for a top 16 spot.
Coaches from all the leagues make the selections based on the entered teams. Usually there aren't many more than 16 teams that enter.
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mo bloodyoung
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:48pm |
B1Gfan wrote:
So does it only matter if your team qualifies for states? One of the first steps to growing a program is facing bigger challenges / situations. In AAA wrestling only 16/61 (28%) get to experience team postseason, pretty sure that is the smallest % in district 1 sports by quite a bit. I doubt they get 32 teams to ask for consideration, but if they did (that was the expectation) and tonight was 8 groups of 4 (or they even had 24 and it was 8 groups of 3) it would be much closer to every other sport.
They have actually expanded from 24 to 28 district 1 postseason berths in recent years in many of the other sports, wrestling feels like it contracts and closes up shop, then people complain about growing the sport. |
I do think when there were 24 teams and 2 matches in one night, that made for a better experience. Feasibility in wrestling is different than basketball with weigh-ins tho. Having the lower seeds travel so far most times is also a deterrent to teams applying. But is the growth a program really halted by missing out on one dual meet?
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Chinwhipped
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:50pm |
MTLeister wrote:
Some Districts literally just use team winning percentage for their Duals seeding process. No issues there, right?
Most of the Districts that use a power rankings formula for wrestling have major complaints every year, way more than you see in District 1, IMHO.
Something most people don't realize... teams have to submit to enter the District Duals. That's the case in District 1 and I believe almost all the others as well. Every year there are teams which decide not to enter that likely would have qualified had they entered. So if your team didn't get picked, they either didn't enter or didn't make the cut for a top 16 spot.
Coaches from all the leagues make the selections based on the entered teams. Usually there aren't many more than 16 teams that enter. |
The reason its "Something most people don't realize..." is because its done in a smoke filled room. lol.
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mo bloodyoung
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:50pm |
MTLeister wrote:
Some Districts literally just use team winning percentage for their Duals seeding process. No issues there, right?
Most of the Districts that use a power rankings formula for wrestling have major complaints every year, way more than you see in District 1, IMHO.
Something most people don't realize... teams have to submit to enter the District Duals. That's the case in District 1 and I believe almost all the others as well. Every year there are teams which decide not to enter that likely would have qualified had they entered. So if your team didn't get picked, they either didn't enter or didn't make the cut for a top 16 spot.
Coaches from all the leagues make the selections based on the entered teams. Usually there aren't many more than 16 teams that enter. |
How many teams applied this year?
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mo bloodyoung
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:51pm |
Chinwhipped wrote:
The reason its "Something most people don't realize..." is because its done in a smoke filled room. lol. |
Do you actually have a point or are just very smoking-adverse?
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B1Gfan
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:53pm |
I have no idea if you have to apply to enter the basketball postseason, but I am not aware of a team turning down the opportunity as the 24 or 28 seed. There is definitely an expectation that you keep playing the other sports if given a chance, and it is more of a hassle for some reason if you are the 16th best wrestling team in the district.
Edited by B1Gfan - Jan 23 2025 at 3:54pm
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B1Gfan
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 4:00pm |
mo bloodyoung wrote:
B1Gfan wrote:
Â
So does it only matter if your team qualifies for states? One of the first steps to growing a program is facing bigger challenges / situations. In AAA wrestling only 16/61 (28%) get to experience team postseason, pretty sure that is the smallest % in district 1 sports by quite a bit. I doubt they get 32 teams to ask for consideration, but if they did (that was the expectation) and tonight was 8 groups of 4 (or they even had 24 and it was 8 groups of 3) it would be much closer to every other sport.
They have actually expanded from 24 to 28 district 1 postseason berths in recent years in many of the other sports, wrestling feels like it contracts and closes up shop, then people complain about growing the sport. |
I do think when there were 24 teams and 2 matches in one night, that made for a better experience. Feasibility in wrestling is different than basketball with weigh-ins tho. Having the lower seeds travel so far most times is also a deterrent to teams applying. But is the growth a program really halted by missing out on one dual meet? | Travel is far in the other sports too, and often they have to miss class to play in the afternoon in a game everyone thinks they will lose. The opportunity outweighs the inconvenience in other sports, but for some reason not in wrestling.
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mo bloodyoung
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 4:02pm |
I also think the team aspect in wrestling isn't a fraction as important as the individual side of things to most participants.
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Chinwhipped
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 4:03pm |
mo bloodyoung wrote:
Chinwhipped wrote:
The reason its "Something most people don't realize..." is because its done in a smoke filled room. lol. |
Do you actually have a point or are just very smoking-adverse? |
I think I'm doing pretty good on here. There's exactly one person that doesn't understand my point.
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mo bloodyoung
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 4:08pm |
Chinwhipped wrote:
I think I'm doing pretty good on here. There's exactly one person that doesn't understand my point. |
It seems you're blaming the committee for C. B. West not making it instead of blaming C. B. West for not making it.
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Chinwhipped
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 4:16pm |
mo bloodyoung wrote:
Chinwhipped wrote:
I think I'm doing pretty good on here. There's exactly one person that doesn't understand my point. |
It seems you're blaming the committee for C. B. West not making it instead of blaming C. B. West for not making it. |
Like I said, there's only one person on this thread that doesn't understand my point. I'm essentially making the same point with the others that are disagreeing with you on here. In fact, I'm looking for someone that agrees with your point. By the way, what is your point?
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mo bloodyoung
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Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 4:21pm |
Chinwhipped wrote:
Like I said, there's only one person on this thread that doesn't understand my point. I'm essentially making the same point with the others that are disagreeing with you on here. In fact, I'm looking for someone that agrees with your point. By the way, what is your point? |
My point is a committee with context is a better option than computer generated numbers without context. And the majority of the time they get it "right." But I do appreciate conspiracy theories, too, so keep em coming.
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