New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - AAA District Duals Teams / Seeding
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

AAA District Duals Teams / Seeding

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>
Author
B1Gfan View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: Feb 25 2022
Location: PA
Status: Offline
Points: 247
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B1Gfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 1:26pm
Call it political or whatever you want, it definitely lacks transparency. For every other District 1 sport this is at the top of their general information page -

SEED MEETING: Sunday, February 9, 2025 - 10AM
Meeting for all Steering Committee Reps in all classifications. This is an open meeting, all coaches are welcome to attend.

SEED MEETING ZOOM LINK


For wrestling you get this -

Team Duals Seeding Meeting: 1/19/25 - TBA

Thus smoke filled room comments, especially with no way to separate teams other than opinion, and a 16 team field in a district with 60+ teams.

Edited by B1Gfan - Jan 23 2025 at 1:28pm
Back to Top
ChuckFalzioli View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: Jan 10 2023
Location: Richboro
Status: Offline
Points: 37
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChuckFalzioli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by mo bloodyoung mo bloodyoung wrote:

Originally posted by ChuckFalzioli ChuckFalzioli wrote:



I agree. It is way too political.


How is it political? lol

The only teams from the rankings that didn't make the bracket were Kennett and Downingtown West. West has losses to W. C. Henderson and Avon Grove. Avon Grove has losses to Great Valley and Lower Merion but also a win over Pennsbury, who is the 6 seed. Pennsbury also has losses to Garnet and Pennridge, but seeded over both. But Pennridge has a loss to Souderton, who lost to C. B. West who lost to C. B. East who lost to Downingtown West and the cycle goes on and on.


You've never been to one of the meetings bud, you wouldn't get it.

You're using the arbitrary rankings as your standard, which is also political.
Back to Top
Chinwhipped View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: Feb 20 2023
Status: Offline
Points: 75
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chinwhipped Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 2:07pm
Originally posted by ChuckFalzioli ChuckFalzioli wrote:

Originally posted by mo bloodyoung mo bloodyoung wrote:

Originally posted by ChuckFalzioli ChuckFalzioli wrote:



I agree. It is way too political.


How is it political? lol

The only teams from the rankings that didn't make the bracket were Kennett and Downingtown West. West has losses to W. C. Henderson and Avon Grove. Avon Grove has losses to Great Valley and Lower Merion but also a win over Pennsbury, who is the 6 seed. Pennsbury also has losses to Garnet and Pennridge, but seeded over both. But Pennridge has a loss to Souderton, who lost to C. B. West who lost to C. B. East who lost to Downingtown West and the cycle goes on and on.


You've never been to one of the meetings bud, you wouldn't get it.

You're using the arbitrary rankings as your standard, which is also political.

Vote yourself into the D1 team rankings and then vote yourself into District Duals. But don't let anyone look at your actual record. Not trying to pick on any one team so I'll just pick one here at random and wait for someone to explain the process by which they are in the sweet 16 - https://www.pa-wrestling.com/hs/teams/owenjroberts/schedule.htm
It seems that the 14 seed lost to the 15 seed twice this season. lol



Edited by Chinwhipped - Jan 23 2025 at 2:11pm
No offense intended, none taken
Back to Top
mo bloodyoung View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics
Avatar

Joined: Dec 06 2017
Location: The Lion's Den
Status: Offline
Points: 832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mo bloodyoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 2:17pm
For the record, this is who qualified to state duals from District 1, by seeds, the last 10 years

2024: 1, 2, 3, 4
2023: 3, 4, 1, 6
2022: 2, 1, 4, 3
2020: 3, 1, 2, 13
2019: 1, 2, 3, 5
2018: 1, 3, 2, 4
2017: 2, 1, 4, 6
2016: 1, 2, 3, 4
2015: 1, 2, 3, 4
2014: 1, 3, 5, 4

Meaning the top 4 seeds have qualified for states 87% of the time the last decade. 


Now 6A basketball, which uses a power point system, who finished in the top 4 the last decade?
2024: 1, 14, 2, 4
2023: 3, 1, 2, 5
2022: 2, 12, 3, 1
2020: 1, 3, 4, 7
2019: 1, 2, 3, 4
2018: 1, 2, 3, 4
2017: 4, 3, 2, 8
2016: 2, 9, 4, 11
2015: 4, 6, 7, 9
2014: 2, 5, 1, 14

Which makes it 72% of the time the top 4 seeds finished in the top 4.
Back to Top
mo bloodyoung View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics
Avatar

Joined: Dec 06 2017
Location: The Lion's Den
Status: Offline
Points: 832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mo bloodyoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 2:20pm
Originally posted by Chinwhipped Chinwhipped wrote:



Vote yourself into the D1 team rankings and then vote yourself into District Duals. But don't let anyone look at your actual record. Not trying to pick on any one team so I'll just pick one here at random and wait for someone to explain the process by which they are in the sweet 16 - https://www.pa-wrestling.com/hs/teams/owenjroberts/schedule.htm
It seems that the 14 seed lost to the 15 seed twice this season. lol


In this instance, if you were Neshaminy, wouldn't you rather face Boyertown instead of Council Rock South for a second time? Those 2 will see each other all postseason too. Same with Owen J. if they would've flip-flopped spots, facing Boyertown in back to back days.

Seems like that move was more practical than anything.
Back to Top
Chinwhipped View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: Feb 20 2023
Status: Offline
Points: 75
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chinwhipped Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by mo bloodyoung mo bloodyoung wrote:

Originally posted by Chinwhipped Chinwhipped wrote:



Vote yourself into the D1 team rankings and then vote yourself into District Duals. But don't let anyone look at your actual record. Not trying to pick on any one team so I'll just pick one here at random and wait for someone to explain the process by which they are in the sweet 16 - https://www.pa-wrestling.com/hs/teams/owenjroberts/schedule.htm
It seems that the 14 seed lost to the 15 seed twice this season. lol


In this instance, if you were Neshaminy, wouldn't you rather face Boyertown instead of Council Rock South for a second time? Those 2 will see each other all postseason too. Same with Owen J. if they would've flip-flopped spots, facing Boyertown in back to back days.

Seems like that move was more practical than anything.

No.  I'm trying to figure out how many Benjamins it takes to get a pigtail match at this tournament.  I'm not sure you realize that you are describing what most people commonly refer to as a smoke filled room.
No offense intended, none taken
Back to Top
mo bloodyoung View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics
Avatar

Joined: Dec 06 2017
Location: The Lion's Den
Status: Offline
Points: 832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mo bloodyoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:39pm
Originally posted by Chinwhipped Chinwhipped wrote:


No.  I'm trying to figure out how many Benjamins it takes to get a pigtail match at this tournament.  I'm not sure you realize that you are describing what most people commonly refer to as a smoke filled room.

I still don't understand what your gripe is. Who got screwed in your mind?
Back to Top
B1Gfan View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: Feb 25 2022
Location: PA
Status: Offline
Points: 247
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B1Gfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:45pm
Originally posted by mo bloodyoung mo bloodyoung wrote:

For the record, this is who qualified to state duals from District 1, by seeds, the last 10 years

2024: 1, 2, 3, 4
2023: 3, 4, 1, 6
2022: 2, 1, 4, 3
2020: 3, 1, 2, 13
2019: 1, 2, 3, 5
2018: 1, 3, 2, 4
2017: 2, 1, 4, 6
2016: 1, 2, 3, 4
2015: 1, 2, 3, 4
2014: 1, 3, 5, 4

Meaning the top 4 seeds have qualified for states 87% of the time the last decade. 


Now 6A basketball, which uses a power point system, who finished in the top 4 the last decade?
2024: 1, 14, 2, 4
2023: 3, 1, 2, 5
2022: 2, 12, 3, 1
2020: 1, 3, 4, 7
2019: 1, 2, 3, 4
2018: 1, 2, 3, 4
2017: 4, 3, 2, 8
2016: 2, 9, 4, 11
2015: 4, 6, 7, 9
2014: 2, 5, 1, 14

Which makes it 72% of the time the top 4 seeds finished in the top 4.


So does it only matter if your team qualifies for states? One of the first steps to growing a program is facing bigger challenges / situations. In AAA wrestling only 16/61 (28%) get to experience team postseason, pretty sure that is the smallest % in district 1 sports by quite a bit. I doubt they get 32 teams to ask for consideration, but if they did (that was the expectation) and tonight was 8 groups of 4 (or they even had 24 and it was 8 groups of 3) it would be much closer to every other sport.

They have actually expanded from 24 to 28 district 1 postseason berths in recent years in many of the other sports, wrestling feels like it contracts and closes up shop, then people complain about growing the sport.
Back to Top
MTLeister View Drop Down
Administrators
Administrators
Avatar

Joined: Nov 26 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 6243
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MTLeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:45pm
Some Districts literally just use team winning percentage for their Duals seeding process.  No issues there, right?

Most of the Districts that use a power rankings formula for wrestling have major complaints every year, way more than you see in District 1, IMHO.

Something most people don't realize... teams have to submit to enter the District Duals.  That's the case in District 1 and I believe almost all the others as well.  Every year there are teams which decide not to enter that likely would have qualified had they entered.  So if your team didn't get picked, they either didn't enter or didn't make the cut for a top 16 spot.

Coaches from all the leagues make the selections based on the entered teams.  Usually there aren't many more than 16 teams that enter.
PA-Wrestling.com - online home for Pennsylvania wrestling - https://twitter.com/PA_wrestling
Back to Top
mo bloodyoung View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics
Avatar

Joined: Dec 06 2017
Location: The Lion's Den
Status: Offline
Points: 832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mo bloodyoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:48pm
Originally posted by B1Gfan B1Gfan wrote:

 

So does it only matter if your team qualifies for states? One of the first steps to growing a program is facing bigger challenges / situations. In AAA wrestling only 16/61 (28%) get to experience team postseason, pretty sure that is the smallest % in district 1 sports by quite a bit. I doubt they get 32 teams to ask for consideration, but if they did (that was the expectation) and tonight was 8 groups of 4 (or they even had 24 and it was 8 groups of 3) it would be much closer to every other sport.

They have actually expanded from 24 to 28 district 1 postseason berths in recent years in many of the other sports, wrestling feels like it contracts and closes up shop, then people complain about growing the sport.

I do think when there were 24 teams and 2 matches in one night, that made for a better experience. Feasibility in wrestling is different than basketball with weigh-ins tho. Having the lower seeds travel so far most times is also a deterrent to teams applying. But is the growth a program really halted by missing out on one dual meet? 
Back to Top
Chinwhipped View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: Feb 20 2023
Status: Offline
Points: 75
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chinwhipped Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by MTLeister MTLeister wrote:

Some Districts literally just use team winning percentage for their Duals seeding process.  No issues there, right?

Most of the Districts that use a power rankings formula for wrestling have major complaints every year, way more than you see in District 1, IMHO.

Something most people don't realize... teams have to submit to enter the District Duals.  That's the case in District 1 and I believe almost all the others as well.  Every year there are teams which decide not to enter that likely would have qualified had they entered.  So if your team didn't get picked, they either didn't enter or didn't make the cut for a top 16 spot.

Coaches from all the leagues make the selections based on the entered teams.  Usually there aren't many more than 16 teams that enter.

The reason its "Something most people don't realize..." is because its done in a smoke filled room. lol.
No offense intended, none taken
Back to Top
mo bloodyoung View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics
Avatar

Joined: Dec 06 2017
Location: The Lion's Den
Status: Offline
Points: 832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mo bloodyoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:50pm
Originally posted by MTLeister MTLeister wrote:

Some Districts literally just use team winning percentage for their Duals seeding process.  No issues there, right?

Most of the Districts that use a power rankings formula for wrestling have major complaints every year, way more than you see in District 1, IMHO.

Something most people don't realize... teams have to submit to enter the District Duals.  That's the case in District 1 and I believe almost all the others as well.  Every year there are teams which decide not to enter that likely would have qualified had they entered.  So if your team didn't get picked, they either didn't enter or didn't make the cut for a top 16 spot.

Coaches from all the leagues make the selections based on the entered teams.  Usually there aren't many more than 16 teams that enter.

How many teams applied this year?
Back to Top
mo bloodyoung View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics
Avatar

Joined: Dec 06 2017
Location: The Lion's Den
Status: Offline
Points: 832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mo bloodyoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:51pm
Originally posted by Chinwhipped Chinwhipped wrote:


The reason its "Something most people don't realize..." is because its done in a smoke filled room. lol.

Do you actually have a point or are just very smoking-adverse?
Back to Top
B1Gfan View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: Feb 25 2022
Location: PA
Status: Offline
Points: 247
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B1Gfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 3:53pm
I have no idea if you have to apply to enter the basketball postseason, but I am not aware of a team turning down the opportunity as the 24 or 28 seed. There is definitely an expectation that you keep playing the other sports if given a chance, and it is more of a hassle for some reason if you are the 16th best wrestling team in the district.

Edited by B1Gfan - Jan 23 2025 at 3:54pm
Back to Top
B1Gfan View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: Feb 25 2022
Location: PA
Status: Offline
Points: 247
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote B1Gfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 4:00pm
Originally posted by mo bloodyoung mo bloodyoung wrote:

Originally posted by B1Gfan B1Gfan wrote:

 

So does it only matter if your team qualifies for states? One of the first steps to growing a program is facing bigger challenges / situations. In AAA wrestling only 16/61 (28%) get to experience team postseason, pretty sure that is the smallest % in district 1 sports by quite a bit. I doubt they get 32 teams to ask for consideration, but if they did (that was the expectation) and tonight was 8 groups of 4 (or they even had 24 and it was 8 groups of 3) it would be much closer to every other sport.

They have actually expanded from 24 to 28 district 1 postseason berths in recent years in many of the other sports, wrestling feels like it contracts and closes up shop, then people complain about growing the sport.

I do think when there were 24 teams and 2 matches in one night, that made for a better experience. Feasibility in wrestling is different than basketball with weigh-ins tho. Having the lower seeds travel so far most times is also a deterrent to teams applying. But is the growth a program really halted by missing out on one dual meet? 


Travel is far in the other sports too, and often they have to miss class to play in the afternoon in a game everyone thinks they will lose. The opportunity outweighs the inconvenience in other sports, but for some reason not in wrestling.
Back to Top
mo bloodyoung View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics
Avatar

Joined: Dec 06 2017
Location: The Lion's Den
Status: Offline
Points: 832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mo bloodyoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 4:02pm
I also think the team aspect in wrestling isn't a fraction as important as the individual side of things to most participants.
Back to Top
Chinwhipped View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: Feb 20 2023
Status: Offline
Points: 75
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Chinwhipped Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by mo bloodyoung mo bloodyoung wrote:

Originally posted by Chinwhipped Chinwhipped wrote:


The reason its "Something most people don't realize..." is because its done in a smoke filled room. lol.

Do you actually have a point or are just very smoking-adverse?

I think I'm doing pretty good on here.  There's exactly one person that doesn't understand my point.
No offense intended, none taken
Back to Top
mo bloodyoung View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics
Avatar

Joined: Dec 06 2017
Location: The Lion's Den
Status: Offline
Points: 832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mo bloodyoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 4:08pm
Originally posted by Chinwhipped Chinwhipped wrote:

I think I'm doing pretty good on here.  There's exactly one person that doesn't understand my point.

It seems you're blaming the committee for C. B. West not making it instead of blaming C. B. West for not making it.
Back to Top
Chinwhipped View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie
Avatar

Joined: Feb 20 2023
Status: Offline
Points: 75
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chinwhipped Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 4:16pm
Originally posted by mo bloodyoung mo bloodyoung wrote:

Originally posted by Chinwhipped Chinwhipped wrote:

I think I'm doing pretty good on here.  There's exactly one person that doesn't understand my point.

It seems you're blaming the committee for C. B. West not making it instead of blaming C. B. West for not making it.

Like I said,  there's only one person on this thread that doesn't understand my point.   I'm essentially making the same point with the others that are disagreeing with you on here.  In fact, I'm looking for someone that agrees with your point.  By the way, what is your point?
No offense intended, none taken
Back to Top
mo bloodyoung View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics
Avatar

Joined: Dec 06 2017
Location: The Lion's Den
Status: Offline
Points: 832
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mo bloodyoung Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan 23 2025 at 4:21pm
Originally posted by Chinwhipped Chinwhipped wrote:


Like I said,  there's only one person on this thread that doesn't understand my point.   I'm essentially making the same point with the others that are disagreeing with you on here.  In fact, I'm looking for someone that agrees with your point.  By the way, what is your point?

My point is a committee with context is a better option than computer generated numbers without context. And the majority of the time they get it "right." But I do appreciate conspiracy theories, too, so keep em coming.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234 5>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down