Reason for optimism in District 1?
Printed From: PA-Wrestling.com
Category: PIAA Districts
Forum Name: District 1 Discussion
Forum Description: Talk about anything related to PIAA District 1 high school wrestling.
URL: http://forums.pa-wrestling.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=11559
Printed Date: Jun 03 2023 at 9:52am
Topic: Reason for optimism in District 1?
Posted By: nateheckenberger
Subject: Reason for optimism in District 1?
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 8:00am
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Replies:
Posted By: oldcougar
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 8:41am
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I really like Nelson of Ridley. He's a bit sloppy, and he appears pretty small for the weight class. But he is quick, has a great attitude, and wrestles to win. He has a tremendous upside. I hope by next year he's a bit stronger, and spends his summer working on technique. He could do some real damage.
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Posted By: sbm
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 9:16am
Old cougar, yes on all counts regarding Nelson.
District 1 - I’d like to be, but in some places, I am not. I applaud the teams that are not afraid of the challenges and expose their kids to the higher level tournament competition. No disrespect intended, but it’s difficult to improve when you look for competition that will let your team come out on top all of the time. I just don’t think it leads to anything but mediocrity. It gets tiresome to hear some groups continuously proclaim to “be the best” overall, when they have simply been the best relative to a small group of teams.
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Posted By: #respect
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 11:28am
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The teams that consistently do well do seem to seek competition in dual meets and tournaments. The same names come up year after year-CRS, QT, SF, BT, OJR. It is not a coincidence that these teams seem to be more ready for the postseason, both team and individual than the ones who do not reach to get better competition for their kids. Hopefully with the optimism that these underclassmen have brought their coaches will look for better competition to prepare them for the postseason in the coming years and District 1 will claim even more medals in the near future.
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Posted By: Peterson5
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 11:59am
 #respect wrote:
The teams that consistently do well do seem to seek competition in dual meets and tournaments. The same names come up year after year-CRS, QT, SF, BT, OJR. It is not a coincidence that these teams seem to be more ready for the postseason, both team and individual than the ones who do not reach to get better competition for their kids. Hopefully with the optimism that these underclassmen have brought their coaches will look for better competition to prepare them for the postseason in the coming years and District 1 will claim even more medals in the near future. |
This is true, but it's gotta be difficult for coaches of teams that don't have a good kid at every/most weights. Do you send your team to elite tournaments only to watch 11 of your 13 kids get destroyed? Schedule dual meets where only those 2 good kids on your roster get anything out of it? If those 2 kids get invited to ETR do you use your schedule points for them and everyone else in your lineup gets less matches that season? Tough call. I would think a good coach finds a balance to help everyone in their room.
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Posted By: botero
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 12:15pm
Peterson5 wrote:
#respect wrote:
The teams that consistently do well do seem to seek competition in dual meets and tournaments. The same names come up year after year-CRS, QT, SF, BT, OJR. It is not a coincidence that these teams seem to be more ready for the postseason, both team and individual than the ones who do not reach to get better competition for their kids. Hopefully with the optimism that these underclassmen have brought their coaches will look for better competition to prepare them for the postseason in the coming years and District 1 will claim even more medals in the near future. |
This is true, but it's gotta be difficult for coaches of teams that don't have a good kid at every/most weights. Do you send your team to elite tournaments only to watch 11 of your 13 kids get destroyed? Schedule dual meets where only those 2 good kids on your roster get anything out of it? If those 2 kids get invited to ETR do you use your schedule points for them and everyone else in your lineup gets less matches that season? Tough call. I would think a good coach finds a balance to help everyone in their room. |
It would be nice if points followed the wrestler and not the team. That way teams could send those two guys to ETR and not lose points for the rest of the team or have to send wrestlers who are not ready for a tournament like ETR.
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Posted By: Peterson5
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 12:22pm
botero wrote:
Peterson5 wrote:
#respect wrote:
The teams that consistently do well do seem to seek competition in dual meets and tournaments. The same names come up year after year-CRS, QT, SF, BT, OJR. It is not a coincidence that these teams seem to be more ready for the postseason, both team and individual than the ones who do not reach to get better competition for their kids. Hopefully with the optimism that these underclassmen have brought their coaches will look for better competition to prepare them for the postseason in the coming years and District 1 will claim even more medals in the near future. |
This is true, but it's gotta be difficult for coaches of teams that don't have a good kid at every/most weights. Do you send your team to elite tournaments only to watch 11 of your 13 kids get destroyed? Schedule dual meets where only those 2 good kids on your roster get anything out of it? If those 2 kids get invited to ETR do you use your schedule points for them and everyone else in your lineup gets less matches that season? Tough call. I would think a good coach finds a balance to help everyone in their room. |
It would be nice if points followed the wrestler and not the team. That way teams could send those two guys to ETR and not lose points for the rest of the team or have to send wrestlers who are not ready for a tournament like ETR. |
Agreed, if I'm not mistaken I believe NJ does that.
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Posted By: DelcoProper
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 2:08pm
botero wrote:
Peterson5 wrote:
#respect wrote:
The teams that consistently do well do seem to seek competition in dual meets and tournaments. The same names come up year after year-CRS, QT, SF, BT, OJR. It is not a coincidence that these teams seem to be more ready for the postseason, both team and individual than the ones who do not reach to get better competition for their kids. Hopefully with the optimism that these underclassmen have brought their coaches will look for better competition to prepare them for the postseason in the coming years and District 1 will claim even more medals in the near future. |
This is true, but it's gotta be difficult for coaches of teams that don't have a good kid at every/most weights. Do you send your team to elite tournaments only to watch 11 of your 13 kids get destroyed? Schedule dual meets where only those 2 good kids on your roster get anything out of it? If those 2 kids get invited to ETR do you use your schedule points for them and everyone else in your lineup gets less matches that season? Tough call. I would think a good coach finds a balance to help everyone in their room. |
It would be nice if points followed the wrestler and not the team. That way teams could send those two guys to ETR and not lose points for the rest of the team or have to send wrestlers who are not ready for a tournament like ETR. |
This would solve alot.
It’s a catch 22 for coaches, because tournaments like ETR only accept the best kids (rightfully so) but the rest of the kids lose the points.
Go to a tournament like the coal cracker and 3 kids benefit and 7 do not because they do not get enough mat time (2 and out or pinned quickly).
I think many coaches would love to divide and concur their roster to different places. This would be individual only and maybe you get 1 or 2 of these per team.
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Posted By: castelli3017
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 2:27pm
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I wish the PIAA just got rid of the points system or at least increase the number of points
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Posted By: oldcougar
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 2:28pm
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Just because your team can't hope to compete in an ETR or Beast, doesn't mean that it can't upgrade its schedule by trying their hand at some lessor tournaments. Which lessor tournament should depend upon where one is starting from. But wherever, you should always be seeking a tournament that tests your kids, forces them to improve to survive. Unless a kid is tested, you never know how he'll perform when it's showtime.
The big-picture wrestling community has mirrored the regular world. The rich become richer; the poor, poorer. The best teams compete against each other nation-wide, while the normal teams stay home and wrestle their local neighborhood programs. And if those normal teams have a standout kid, chances are he'll be migrating to one of the big teams so he can be showcased and get bigtime competition. Why wouldn't he?
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Posted By: castelli3017
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 2:33pm
DelcoProper wrote:
botero wrote:
Peterson5 wrote:
#respect wrote:
The teams that consistently do well do seem to seek competition in dual meets and tournaments. The same names come up year after year-CRS, QT, SF, BT, OJR. It is not a coincidence that these teams seem to be more ready for the postseason, both team and individual than the ones who do not reach to get better competition for their kids. Hopefully with the optimism that these underclassmen have brought their coaches will look for better competition to prepare them for the postseason in the coming years and District 1 will claim even more medals in the near future. |
This is true, but it's gotta be difficult for coaches of teams that don't have a good kid at every/most weights. Do you send your team to elite tournaments only to watch 11 of your 13 kids get destroyed? Schedule dual meets where only those 2 good kids on your roster get anything out of it? If those 2 kids get invited to ETR do you use your schedule points for them and everyone else in your lineup gets less matches that season? Tough call. I would think a good coach finds a balance to help everyone in their room. |
It would be nice if points followed the wrestler and not the team. That way teams could send those two guys to ETR and not lose points for the rest of the team or have to send wrestlers who are not ready for a tournament like ETR. |
This would solve alot.
It’s a catch 22 for coaches, because tournaments like ETR only accept the best kids (rightfully so) but the rest of the kids lose the points.
Go to a tournament like the coal cracker and 3 kids benefit and 7 do not because they do not get enough mat time (2 and out or pinned quickly).
I think many coaches would love to divide and concur their roster to different places. This would be individual only and maybe you get 1 or 2 of these per team. |
Delco -The great thing about the Coal Cracker is that if Kids get eliminated on day 1 of the varsity tourney they can enter the JV tourney that runs on Saturday, which gives those lesser varsity kids opportunities to wrestle other varsity wrestlers their skill level. Damn I just talked myself into returning after a couple of years way.
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Posted By: #respect
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 2:33pm
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Agree with all of this and that it is a difficult call to find a balance for many coaches. Perhaps the college system would work for some of these higher level tournaments where they are not counted as a “team event” if they only send 5 or 6 kids. Something like that may work.
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Posted By: DelcoProper
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 2:35pm
oldcougar wrote:
Just because your team can't hope to compete in an ETR or Beast, doesn't mean that it can't upgrade its schedule by trying their hand at some lessor tournaments. Which lessor tournament should depend upon where one is starting from. But wherever, you should always be seeking a tournament that tests your kids, forces them to improve to survive. Unless a kid is tested, you never know how he'll perform when it's showtime.
The big-picture wrestling community has mirrored the regular world. The rich become richer; the poor, poorer. The best teams compete against each other nation-wide, while the normal teams stay home and wrestle their local neighborhood programs. And if those normal teams have a standout kid, chances are he'll be migrating to one of the big teams so he can be showcased and get bigtime competition. Why wouldn't he?
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Why wouldn’t the PIAA help get all the kids the right level of competition??
The PIAA could help teams retain their talent by letting coaches get creative on their schedule.
The coaches are doing the extra work.
You missed one….
The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, the blind eye grows more ignorant…..
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Posted By: ancienthatteroldram
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 5:04pm
OC: Tournaments are not leasing agreements, but the "lessor" does indeed get poorer and the rich richer. Hope all goes well with you. Great comment re all time best D1 wrestler. IMHO nobody comes close, he was simply amazing.
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Posted By: sbm
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 5:52pm
castelli3017 wrote:
DelcoProper wrote:
botero wrote:
Peterson5 wrote:
#respect wrote:
The teams that consistently do well do seem to seek competition in dual meets and tournaments. The same names come up year after year-CRS, QT, SF, BT, OJR. It is not a coincidence that these teams seem to be more ready for the postseason, both team and individual than the ones who do not reach to get better competition for their kids. Hopefully with the optimism that these underclassmen have brought their coaches will look for better competition to prepare them for the postseason in the coming years and District 1 will claim even more medals in the near future. |
This is true, but it's gotta be difficult for coaches of teams that don't have a good kid at every/most weights. Do you send your team to elite tournaments only to watch 11 of your 13 kids get destroyed? Schedule dual meets where only those 2 good kids on your roster get anything out of it? If those 2 kids get invited to ETR do you use your schedule points for them and everyone else in your lineup gets less matches that season? Tough call. I would think a good coach finds a balance to help everyone in their room. |
It would be nice if points followed the wrestler and not the team. That way teams could send those two guys to ETR and not lose points for the rest of the team or have to send wrestlers who are not ready for a tournament like ETR. |
This would solve alot.
It’s a catch 22 for coaches, because tournaments like ETR only accept the best kids (rightfully so) but the rest of the kids lose the points.
Go to a tournament like the coal cracker and 3 kids benefit and 7 do not because they do not get enough mat time (2 and out or pinned quickly).
I think many coaches would love to divide and concur their roster to different places. This would be individual only and maybe you get 1 or 2 of these per team. |
Delco -The great thing about the Coal Cracker is that if Kids get eliminated on day 1 of the varsity tourney they can enter the JV tourney that runs on Saturday, which gives those lesser varsity kids opportunities to wrestle other varsity wrestlers their skill level. Damn I just talked myself into returning after a couple of years way. |
That is a great idea!
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Posted By: MTLeister
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 7:10pm
botero wrote:
It would be nice if points followed the wrestler and not the team. That way teams could send those two guys to ETR and not lose points for the rest of the team or have to send wrestlers who are not ready for a tournament like ETR. |
I have to find out out the states that do points by wrestler actually track it all. I'd hope it's not just on the honor system, because that would be an absolute disaster IMHO.
I've been trying to track competition points for the last couple of seasons. If I have points for tournaments correct (not 100% sure I do have it all correct), I'm seeing 8 teams across the state that went over the 22 point limit.
That kind of stuff needs to be more closely monitored before you can even think about tracking it by wrestler. There were 487 schools with wrestling this season and 11,127 wrestlers on rosters.
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PA-Wrestling.com - online home for Pennsylvania wrestling - https://twitter.com/PA_wrestling" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/PA_wrestling
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Posted By: DelcoProper
Date Posted: Mar 14 2023 at 10:49pm
MTLeister wrote:
botero wrote:
It would be nice if points followed the wrestler and not the team. That way teams could send those two guys to ETR and not lose points for the rest of the team or have to send wrestlers who are not ready for a tournament like ETR. |
I have to find out out the states that do points by wrestler actually track it all. I'd hope it's not just on the honor system, because that would be an absolute disaster IMHO.
I've been trying to track competition points for the last couple of seasons. If I have points for tournaments correct (not 100% sure I do have it all correct), I'm seeing 8 teams across the state that went over the 22 point limit.
That kind of stuff needs to be more closely monitored before you can even think about tracking it by wrestler. There were 487 schools with wrestling this season and 11,127 wrestlers on rosters. |
In 1998 people thought a weight descent plan was too much too. How on earth do we track 10,000 wrestlers weight progression.
Now we have it….
We are always a computer program away from the next best tracking system.
22 points just isn’t enough if you want to send your “hammer” to get work but your other kids lose 2-4 matches for each tournament.
Castelli had a great call out about the coal cracker. Bonus matches.
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Posted By: Low Single
Date Posted: Mar 15 2023 at 7:39am
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Is District 1 in danger of losing a regional qualifier or two because of the lack of performance at the state level? I've heard that a few times but can't find any verification if it has been officially voted on and instituted for next season.
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Posted By: sbm
Date Posted: Mar 15 2023 at 10:25am
DelcoProper wrote:
MTLeister wrote:
botero wrote:
It would be nice if points followed the wrestler and not the team. That way teams could send those two guys to ETR and not lose points for the rest of the team or have to send wrestlers who are not ready for a tournament like ETR. |
I have to find out out the states that do points by wrestler actually track it all. I'd hope it's not just on the honor system, because that would be an absolute disaster IMHO.
I've been trying to track competition points for the last couple of seasons. If I have points for tournaments correct (not 100% sure I do have it all correct), I'm seeing 8 teams across the state that went over the 22 point limit.
That kind of stuff needs to be more closely monitored before you can even think about tracking it by wrestler. There were 487 schools with wrestling this season and 11,127 wrestlers on rosters. |
In 1998 people thought a weight descent plan was too much too. How on earth do we track 10,000 wrestlers weight progression.
Now we have it….
We are always a computer program away from the next best tracking system.
22 points just isn’t enough if you want to send your “hammer†to get work but your other kids lose 2-4 matches for each tournament.
Castelli had a great call out about the coal cracker. Bonus matches. |
But, keep in mind, there is no guarantee that your “hammer” will fare well either. It seems that this is all relative. Kids who look stellar in their own leagues/districts don’t always fare well outside of those arenas.
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Posted By: MTLeister
Date Posted: Mar 15 2023 at 11:04am
DelcoProper wrote:
MTLeister wrote:
botero wrote:
It would be nice if points followed the wrestler and not the team. That way teams could send those two guys to ETR and not lose points for the rest of the team or have to send wrestlers who are not ready for a tournament like ETR. |
I have to find out out the states that do points by wrestler actually track it all. I'd hope it's not just on the honor system, because that would be an absolute disaster IMHO.
I've been trying to track competition points for the last couple of seasons. If I have points for tournaments correct (not 100% sure I do have it all correct), I'm seeing 8 teams across the state that went over the 22 point limit.
That kind of stuff needs to be more closely monitored before you can even think about tracking it by wrestler. There were 487 schools with wrestling this season and 11,127 wrestlers on rosters. |
In 1998 people thought a weight descent plan was too much too. How on earth do we track 10,000 wrestlers weight progression.
Now we have it….
We are always a computer program away from the next best tracking system.
22 points just isn’t enough if you want to send your “hammer” to get work but your other kids lose 2-4 matches for each tournament.
Castelli had a great call out about the coal cracker. Bonus matches. |
I agree with you to a point. The best software is only as good as the data that's supplied to it. If people don't know how to correctly enter info, don't enter in a timely fashion, fail to enter info properly, or intentionally enter false info... it's going to be a headache. We see that now with OPC/Track, unfortunately.
It's not a huge problem but there are flaws. No matter what system is used, someone needs to administer it and that'll likely be a full-time job.
I can't tell you how often the wrong results are entered into Track, ha. It's almost to the point where I can't rely on it anymore. I sure hope some Districts don't use the results on Track when doing their post-season seeding, ha.
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Posted By: MTLeister
Date Posted: Mar 15 2023 at 11:05am
Low Single wrote:
Is District 1 in danger of losing a regional qualifier or two because of the lack of performance at the state level? I've heard that a few times but can't find any verification if it has been officially voted on and instituted for next season. |
Honestly don't think so, at least not anytime soon. That proposal by the wrestling steering committee had flaws, and the main PIAA committee rejected it. I'm guessing if they do something like that in wrestling, they'll have to do it for all sports and that could be tricky to implement.
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