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NHSCA Nationals - Freshman

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Steelcitywrestling12 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Steelcitywrestling12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2022 at 7:36pm
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Edited by Steelcitywrestling12 - Mar 29 2022 at 7:44pm
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#respect View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote #respect Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2022 at 8:13pm
Ahor the thread was about freshman nationals. I simply pointed out that three mentioned wrestlers were all held back in middle school so should actually be sophomores.  The three are outstanding wrestlers but should actually by birthdate be sophomores.  I posed a question that if these three (and others for that matter) stayed in their home schools rather than going to be part of a super team they would have benefited their home teams. (By the way “building” a team is another way of saying recruiting which is not allowed in the PIAA)   You are the one who took this somewhere else as no one had the right to even consider these questions without being insulted. This is a forum for discussion and opinions not your page. In answer to your question about how to level the playing field-we all know it cannot be totally leveled-life is not like that but hard work, determination and dedication can go a long way. Using your example of CRS ( which is an outstanding program top to bottom) and Interboro proves the point pretty well this year- while they may be out matched in resources Interboro’s 172lber leveled it up quite nicely. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berwyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2022 at 8:36pm
Get in the Malvern Prep wrestling room in the offseason that'll make up for any deficiencies with workout partners during the year if the student goes to a weak wrestling school.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ancienthatteroldram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2022 at 8:54pm
 #r:  ""(By the way “building” a team is another way of saying recruiting which is not allowed in the PIAA)"" I'm not aware that FCA or BECA have been reprimanded by the PIAA for breaking any rules, perhaps you best inform the PIAA that they don't know their own rules. 
""You are the one who took this somewhere else as no one had the right to even consider these questions without being insulted. "" So now questions are insults.
It is you that has insulted parents of students who enroll their children in non-boundary schools; you who have insulted schools that violate no PIAA rules by suggesting they are in effect cheaters; and it is you who have insulted the D-1 freshman national participants by suggesting/implying that they might not have done so well in the sophomore division(since "they were held back). I'm tired of people who make their opinions public and then cry and claim they have been insulted when challenged. 
The world is becoming so sensitive. Soon I won't be able to question myself, or God forbid, make fun of myself without people getting offended.


Edited by ancienthatteroldram - Mar 29 2022 at 9:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ancienthatteroldram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2022 at 8:56pm
Berwyn: And that certainly is one way to level the playing field. But then not everyone has easy means to take advantage of that option. Glad to see you back on the forum.

Edited by ancienthatteroldram - Mar 29 2022 at 8:58pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote #respect Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2022 at 9:18pm
Ahor. If you can not see that recruiting is happening I cannot help you. I never said FCA or any other school was cheating just playing by different rules than what the PIAA has set. I posed a question and you answered it with a question challenging the validity of my question. I have no problem with families who chose non boundary schools - the problem is with competing in tournaments like team states against schools that are limited with boundaries. I said that all three of wrestlers were outstanding just that the fact is they should be sophomores-that is a compliment  to their abilities and a fact about their birthdates. You are condescending and I am done with this discussion. 
Berwyn -I agree, some time in Malverns room would certainly help bring up most kids level. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote botero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2022 at 9:53pm
#respect my son does ok wrestling sophomores I think 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ancienthatteroldram Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2022 at 9:58pm
#r: You write..""" I never said FCA or any other school was cheating just playing by different rules than what the PIAA has set. """ If not playing by the rules that have been set by the PIAA or the rules of any a game, is not cheating, then I don't know what constitutes cheating. Pray tell what in fact constitutes cheating? Oh, but you are offended by the tone and impertenance of my questions and so are unable to answer. Life on the left side of the Bell Curve, good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote cbal24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2022 at 10:51pm
Regardless of age, grade, school, etc. there were some fine results by kids living within the D1 boundaries.  Congrats to those kids who placed at NHSCAs this year!
Win or lose, do it with class!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote longtimefan60 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 29 2022 at 10:59pm
I would be very interested in knowing the ages of these freshmen.  I know there were kids in my graduating class that were more than a year older than me & they were not given an extra year.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Monsoon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 30 2022 at 7:02am
AHOR- nice to see the book 'How to win friends and influence people' continues to pay off for you.

Edited by Monsoon - Mar 30 2022 at 5:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dodfan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 30 2022 at 7:55am
Originally posted by TiredoftheTryHards TiredoftheTryHards wrote:

Regarding the comment about FCA … they should be prep let’s face it. The talent mentioned in the previous text are from Northpenn, Plymouth WM & springford. How is it fair they can compete against boundary schools? Just MHO. The 8th graders coming up Are from Connecticut, Pennridge and Northpenn   (Sounding a bit like BMCT)
 
I don't feel the least bit sorry for the District 1 teams. They allowed FCA to happen. Now they are stuck with this monster. In District 6, they shut Bishop McCort down before it even started.
 
Unfortunately, it's only going to get worse on the Eastern part of the state.
Proud Singer of the "whining siren song"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wrestlinggeek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 30 2022 at 8:38am
If FCA, BECA, NDGP, et al were required to only accept students from within a geographical boundary set by the PIAA and not allowed to accept from outside that boundary, would that be considered fair?  Honest question to whoever wants to answer.... besides ahor.  lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DelcoProper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 30 2022 at 10:12am
I think that’s an easy solve. 

I think the main point of contention is not understanding the difference between a Malvern, for example, and FCA.

We accept MP for what they are, but why is one prep and one PIAA?  They both are tuition driven schools and both take kids from wherever. 

I know it’s politically and money driven but can we get the readers digest version of the reasoning?

Originally posted by wrestlinggeek wrestlinggeek wrote:

If FCA, BECA, NDGP, et al were required to only accept students from within a geographical boundary set by the PIAA and not allowed to accept from outside that boundary, would that be considered fair?  Honest question to whoever wants to answer.... besides ahor.  lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MTLeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar 30 2022 at 12:07pm
Originally posted by DelcoProper DelcoProper wrote:

I think that’s an easy solve. 

I think the main point of contention is not understanding the difference between a Malvern, for example, and FCA.

We accept MP for what they are, but why is one prep and one PIAA?  They both are tuition driven schools and both take kids from wherever. 

I know it’s politically and money driven but can we get the readers digest version of the reasoning?

Originally posted by wrestlinggeek wrestlinggeek wrote:

If FCA, BECA, NDGP, et al were required to only accept students from within a geographical boundary set by the PIAA and not allowed to accept from outside that boundary, would that be considered fair?  Honest question to whoever wants to answer.... besides ahor.  lol

I believe it's just a matter of preference for each private school.  If they want to join the PIAA in a particular sport (or have all sports join), they just have to agree to follow all the PIAA rules.  Schools like Wyoming Seminary are in the PIAA for a lot of sports but not for wrestling.  Don't have any inside info on why they aren't for wrestling but are for other sports... would have just be a preference of the administration, coach, etc I would think.

All the various PIAA rules, bylaws, and more can be found here if anyone's interested:
PA-Wrestling.com - online home for Pennsylvania wrestling - https://twitter.com/PA_wrestling
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Originally posted by #respect #respect wrote:

Ahor. If you can not see that recruiting is happening I cannot help you. I never said FCA or any other school was cheating just playing by different rules than what the PIAA has set. I posed a question and you answered it with a question challenging the validity of my question. I have no problem with families who chose non boundary schools - the problem is with competing in tournaments like team states against schools that are limited with boundaries. I said that all three of wrestlers were outstanding just that the fact is they should be sophomores-that is a compliment  to their abilities and a fact about their birthdates. You are condescending and I am done with this discussion. 
Berwyn -I agree, some time in Malverns room would certainly help bring up most kids level. 

you say that recruiting is happening - real question from an outsider, is there any evidence that Faith Christian is recruiting? Isn't there a difference with parents choosing to enroll their kids in a private school (for any reason) versus any proof that the coach is seeking out these kids to recrut them?

There was a Souderton kid who transferred in from Kansas this year that was at first ineligible for post-season, then that was overturned, apparently because it was proven that family moved to PA. Elsewhere in this string, someone says  Faith Christian has a middle school kid from Connecticut. If family moved to PA, are they not allowed to enroll their kid in school in PA?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCAARef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 06 2022 at 12:06pm
Well #respect, perhaps that's is an oxymoron, doesn't "agree' with you, but I certainly do.  No one, but the parents, know what goes into the decision to select a school or hold back their child. No one, certainly not the posters on this site, know the impact academically or socially on individuals. Until the rules change, and Dr. Lombardi of the PIAA indicated last week that isn't likey to happen any time soon, it's time to put this whole boundary vs non-boundary debate to rest.  After what seems like 20 years it's really old IMO.

QUOTE=ancienthatteroldram]#r: Nothing in life is ever apples to apples, and there is no such thing as a level playing field. Even amongst apples one finds qualitative differences that make a Honeycrisp different from a crab apple, not unlike what makes a Council Rock different from an Interboro. How do you propose to make coaching staff, wrestling facilities and administrative support equal amongst schools in order to achieve this desired level playing field? And exactly what PIAA rules are FCA, Becca, et al not following or breaking? Where you see "parents trying to get an unfair advantage for their children", I see parents exercising good parental stewardship for the well being, athletically,socially and academically for their children. [/QUOTE]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCAARef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 06 2022 at 12:10pm


Have yuo seen their birth certificates?  Maybe they were youngish for their grade before and are now just part of the older quintile.  Also citing only one wrestler at a program actually support AHOR's arguement IMO.

Originally posted by #respect #respect wrote:

Ahor the thread was about freshman nationals. I simply pointed out that three mentioned wrestlers were all held back in middle school so should actually be sophomores.  The three are outstanding wrestlers but should actually by birthdate be sophomores.  I posed a question that if these three (and others for that matter) stayed in their home schools rather than going to be part of a super team they would have benefited their home teams. (By the way “building” a team is another way of saying recruiting which is not allowed in the PIAA)   You are the one who took this somewhere else as no one had the right to even consider these questions without being insulted. This is a forum for discussion and opinions not your page. In answer to your question about how to level the playing field-we all know it cannot be totally leveled-life is not like that but hard work, determination and dedication can go a long way. Using your example of CRS ( which is an outstanding program top to bottom) and Interboro proves the point pretty well this year- while they may be out matched in resources Interboro’s 172lber leveled it up quite nicely. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCAARef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 06 2022 at 12:13pm
Jealous parents/coaches everywhere are reporting the successful non-boundary schools to the PIAA all of the time.  The fact that only bishop McCort has been sanctioned should tell you that the other are not breaking the PIAA rules.  Perhaps your standards are a bit more strict.  Also, of you can't. see that recruiting is happening at boundary schools I cannot help you.

 
Originally posted by #respect #respect wrote:

Ahor. If you can not see that recruiting is happening I cannot help you. I never said FCA or any other school was cheating just playing by different rules than what the PIAA has set. I posed a question and you answered it with a question challenging the validity of my question. I have no problem with families who chose non boundary schools - the problem is with competing in tournaments like team states against schools that are limited with boundaries. I said that all three of wrestlers were outstanding just that the fact is they should be sophomores-that is a compliment  to their abilities and a fact about their birthdates. You are condescending and I am done with this discussion. 
Berwyn -I agree, some time in Malverns room would certainly help bring up most kids level. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote botero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr 06 2022 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by #respect #respect wrote:

You have to wonder how these three would have done in the sophomore division since all three have been held back

This is the best comment on this thread. The kids my son wrestled in the quarters and semis are both holdbacks. One from a private school and one from a public school. I’d be willing to bet the one in the finals from a private school in Arizona is a holdback too. 
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