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cradles2001 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cradles2001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2019 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by dist1ranker dist1ranker wrote:

Originally posted by cradles2001 cradles2001 wrote:

ik this is irrelevant but is lledo from lower merion ok? hasnt wrestled in a week or two

He's going 170 according to his dad. Hoping he and Crawford see each other in the finals at Central League tournament this Saturday.
 
for the post season also? it might be smart. but that's why he hasn't wrestled in awhile??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCAARef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2019 at 7:35pm
Originally posted by Mctuna40 Mctuna40 wrote:

Originally posted by Die Hear Bear Die Hear Bear wrote:


As I said, I get it, but I can’t see this being a good thing. I don’t know the long term impact, but do know this will not help, but can only hurt our sport. I don't like anything that makes it harder to watch our Sport


100% agreed. This’ll be the first time in more than a decade that I’ll not be watching or at States! Out of principle I’m not going to be forced to pay a subscription that won’t be used! How about Flo allows people to Pay per View the States for 15$. I’d pay that!

Tuna - Why won't your subscription be used?  You are a wrestling fan and there is something good on Flo 12 months per year.  i just watched the Clovis-Buchanan dual on demand. What a high school dual.  Two hs in the same district Buchanan #3 in the country and Clovis #18. 3,000 people in the Buchanan gympwithnt he match on a raised platform.  Doesn't;t get any better.  BTW non forfeits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCAARef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2019 at 7:41pm
Originally posted by Wagon Tail Wagon Tail wrote:

Think this whole thing with Flow stinks! First off cutting off PCN who is a member of, I bet every cable system in PA. Can be picked up in all bars and resturants in the state. Wonder how much $$$$$ Flow had to lay out to get the rights??? Just another way of seperating PA residents from their hard earned $$$ PIAA stinks to high heaven over this one. What happens when they go for the other
PIAA, DROP DEAD!

Wagon - The company is Flo Sports, of which wrestling is a major part, but Flo already covers more than 20 sports.  BTW you annual fee gives you access to those sports as well.  If you have Direct TV or Dish or no cable you don't get PCN.  If you want to watch state dual meet or individual tournaments you used to need a subscription to both NHSF streaming service and the PCN streaming service.  IMO Flo is a much better deal.  Having Flo gives you the chance to broaden your horizons, see out of state high school events, college events, and international events.  If you don't feel these opportunities aren't worthwhile then I understand.  Don't partake.  Simple decision.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCAARef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2019 at 7:43pm
Originally posted by HopDevil HopDevil wrote:

I know Flo has an agreement with BTN where Flo can air any of the Big10 matches that are on BTN website with a subscription to their site, I think it's BTN to go. So, essentially the matches are available to subscribers to Flo and BTN.
 
I'm wondering why an agreement couldn't have been made to allow Flo the rights to the entire tournament AND PCN the rights to televise the finals. That would be a win-win-win for both media outlets, PA wrestling fans, and non-PA wrestling fans.

Hop - Both Flo and BTN2Go are streaming services.  Matches shown on BTN, such as PSU-Michigan and OSU-PSU are on tv and as such are NOT available Flo.  Your comparison is Apples and Oranges.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCAARef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2019 at 7:44pm
Originally posted by monkeyBoy monkeyBoy wrote:

Sheesh, can flo have a smaller font for the scores on their results site?  Need a magnifying glass to read it.  I mean I guess it "looks" better than what the PIAA used for years at the duals but at least you could read that!   Guess I'll wait for the results to show up here where I can read it.

Gee Monkey just hold down control/+ when viewing your browser and the print will be bigger lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MTLeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 09 2019 at 2:38pm
How has the coverage of the tournament been from Flo?  How about the finals in particular?

From what I can read from Twitter and some other places, it sounds like there have been a few issues.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Oracle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 09 2019 at 7:20pm
Bad. Misidentifying wrestlers. Misstating the score. (Team and individual matches) It will need to improve in a big way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCAARef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2019 at 9:05am
Originally posted by MTLeister MTLeister wrote:

How has the coverage of the tournament been from Flo?  How about the finals in particular?

From what I can read from Twitter and some other places, it sounds like there have been a few issues.

Mike - I think the coverage has been great.  There were't commentators on all the duals, this is my only issue. 

Oracle's complaints, which problems I didn't see, are mostly attributable to the people running the computer for each individual mat.  The computer operator is the scorekeeper and timekeeper.  The feed on the screen is taken from the the information entered into the computer by the computer operator for each individual bout.  We have heard about the problems the "old men scorekeepers" were having with the Flo software in previous posts.  Their problems carry over to what is shown on the stream.  Coaches give the computer operator their "lineup" prior to the meet, but there are changes as coaches move wrestlers around.  These changes have to be entered into the computer, by the "old men scorekeepers", therein lies the problem.  Same for incorrect scores and timing errors.  The hardest thing to do with Flo is reset the clock when you screw up, try to imagine correcting time or riding time in a college bout because the clock and the riding time clock are integrated.

So what is the recommendation?  Not necessarily younger computer operators, but computer operators who are more computer literate.  I've officiated many tournaments that use Flo software, with and without streaming, and with the right score keepers there are no issues.  I can also say the same thing for Track Wrestling and scorekeeper/clock operators using the old paper and independent clock system.  A tournament is only as good as the table help.  

I think the table help at the PIAA tournament likely volunteer, or are paid some minuscule amount.  Once in the rotation you probably have to retire to no longer participate.  These guys likely see it as their way to stay connected and to give back to the sport.  Good on them, but bad on the PIAA when we get the level of efficiency displayed this weekend.  Hopefully, this past weekend will be a training session for all computer operators and PIAA administrators, they all need to do better in March.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MTLeister Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 10 2019 at 11:08am
Originally posted by NCAARef NCAARef wrote:

Originally posted by MTLeister MTLeister wrote:

How has the coverage of the tournament been from Flo?  How about the finals in particular?

From what I can read from Twitter and some other places, it sounds like there have been a few issues.

Mike - I think the coverage has been great.  There were't commentators on all the duals, this is my only issue. 

Oracle's complaints, which problems I didn't see, are mostly attributable to the people running the computer for each individual mat.  The computer operator is the scorekeeper and timekeeper.  The feed on the screen is taken from the the information entered into the computer by the computer operator for each individual bout.  We have heard about the problems the "old men scorekeepers" were having with the Flo software in previous posts.  Their problems carry over to what is shown on the stream.  Coaches give the computer operator their "lineup" prior to the meet, but there are changes as coaches move wrestlers around.  These changes have to be entered into the computer, by the "old men scorekeepers", therein lies the problem.  Same for incorrect scores and timing errors.  The hardest thing to do with Flo is reset the clock when you screw up, try to imagine correcting time or riding time in a college bout because the clock and the riding time clock are integrated.

So what is the recommendation?  Not necessarily younger computer operators, but computer operators who are more computer literate.  I've officiated many tournaments that use Flo software, with and without streaming, and with the right score keepers there are no issues.  I can also say the same thing for Track Wrestling and scorekeeper/clock operators using the old paper and independent clock system.  A tournament is only as good as the table help.  

I think the table help at the PIAA tournament likely volunteer, or are paid some minuscule amount.  Once in the rotation you probably have to retire to no longer participate.  These guys likely see it as their way to stay connected and to give back to the sport.  Good on them, but bad on the PIAA when we get the level of efficiency displayed this weekend.  Hopefully, this past weekend will be a training session for all computer operators and PIAA administrators, they all need to do better in March.

Thanks for the info...good to know.

I had read quite a few people complaining that scores/times weren't on the screen for many matches.

I was also wondering how they covered the finals.  With PCN you had multiple cameras, replays, etc and everything that goes into that.  Did Flo do any of that for the finals or stick with the single camera at the table?  Also read they didn't show any of the medal ceremonies which PCN would do too, which would be quite disappointing if true.

I don't have a Flo subscription anymore, since they got rid of the monthly plans (or made it more difficult to go monthly).  I barely used it then so it's not worth it to me right now.  Would be nice to have a per event price for people who only want to watch the state duals or individual states.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HopDevil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2019 at 10:54am
I enjoyed being able to watch matches other than the finals. Prior to the finals, there wasn't an announcer for most of the duals. For the AAA finals, the announcer was Willie Saylor of Flo, and I think he did a good job. The scoring widget was inaccurate or not present for most of the final dual. Also, Flo didn't have the same level of production to hype the finals that PCN usually has.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Die Hear Bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2019 at 11:16am
Couldn't agree with "this whole thing stinks" Not helpful, the stated obvious, don't like it, don't partake. Pointless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCAARef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2019 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by Die Hear Bear Die Hear Bear wrote:

Couldn't agree with "this whole thing stinks" Not helpful, the stated obvious, don't like it, don't partake. Pointless.

Interesting, you don't like it so you didn't partake.  This is your choice obviously, but who loses out here you who probably would have liked to watch the wrestling, or Flo?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JVStateChamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2019 at 9:24pm
All in all I thought the coverage was great. I was in The Giant Center all three days. I was able to keep track of all four mats on Flo and even go back to the hotel and watch the matches I missed. However, there were a few issues I chalked up to the learning curve. First, the same table workers who have been there for decades were at the tables. The two most common issues we noticed in the arena were wrong scores and bad clock management. This was obvious to everyone in The Giant Center because the big screen had all four mats displayed with Flo's scores. So when there was a mistake, it was shown to everyone on the big scoreboard. These were the same common mistakes that are made at every tournament I have ever been to. The wrong wrestler was added to the match a lot. This is a problem specific to team duals, with all of the lineup changes the coaches made. I dont see that being corrected anytime soon. The most common issue was the clock. Every mat had its problems but mat #3 was by far the worst. Every time the whistle blew the clock would run for 3,4,5 seconds. Almost as if the person working the computer had the slowest reaction time, EVER. You can imagine as the matches got tighter, the issue was more and more prevalent.
There are a few issues I hope they can do a better job with in the future. First, they had no schedule posted on Flo that I could find. If you wanted to know what time the AAA quarters started, you had to go to the PIAA website and get it from the Info page. Second was the match coverage. Willie was there but I only saw him announcing the finals. There were some great match ups in every round that Flo would have had someone announce if this were any other Flo covered tournament. That didnt happen. I think its such an easy self promotion for them, that adds value to their coverage. I hope they can work that out in the future. The issue is the lack of promotion they did for the tournament. Right now the lead story on Flo is Julian's (Chlebove) pressure is something else. So the coverage is valuable to them, why not promote it? Off the top of my head they could have promoted top ten ranked national guys. Kids like Steen,  Alejandro, Crookham, Chlebove, Anderson, McGill, Starocci, Nijenhaus, Garcia and Deboe. Or how about a story about the two D11 teams who didnt make it in? I saw it as a missed opportunity to promote the sport ad the tournament.
I am no marketing genius, so I assume they are working on these issues. We will see in a few weeks when we are back for individuals.

Unless you continually work, evolve and innovate you'll learn a quick and painful lesson from someone who has.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Berwyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 11 2019 at 10:23pm
Willflow should get the old school 80's announcers back for the finals that could really get a big uptick in veiwership.

Edited by Berwyn - Feb 11 2019 at 10:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 12 2019 at 12:13pm
Table workers need to be aware there is a live microphone at their tables now.  What I watched on Saturday (was at the Giant Center on Thursday and Friday) it was evident that the workers for the Southern Columbia / Reynolds final were not aware as I heard some "fricking" and "fracking" prior to the start of wrestling.   Also could tell they were struggling with the technology from their pre-match conversation.   Solution could be to have the microphone turned off until the start of wrestling.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John T Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 15 2019 at 11:45am
IMHO, Flo should not have stopped PCN from broadcasting the finals in PA. Let Flo make their money off non PA residents for this tournament, or for guys who want additional coverage than PCN provides.

I feel as a PA resident who pays school tax, and a coach that contributes (at least a little), to the wrestling scene, it's ridiculous that I need to pay flo to see PA kids wrestle.

And I believe PCN was free, in that I don't remember needing a cable system log in to watch on their website.

And as pointed out, it was included in just about if not every "basic" cable package.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NCAARef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 16 2019 at 11:24am
JohnT - Flo's business model is what it is, the decision to choose the model, and the impact on cable subscribers, falls directly on the shoulders of the PIAA.
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