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The "Headlock" Greatest Move Ever!

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    Posted: Feb 08 2012 at 1:20pm
That's a duck under to a headlock this is a super duck.  http://youtu.be/3ORoo6xMQcg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CZH2016 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2012 at 12:29pm
this past summer my son went to Penn States wrestling camp for a week.  He worked with Dylan and Andrew Alton, and his famous headlock is called the super Duck!!  Just a simple duck under leading up to a monster headlock.  My son has more than doubled his wins this year from last year, and also his pins.  Im a believer!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Rudick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2012 at 10:16am
Originally posted by East140 East140 wrote:

Originally posted by Bill Rudick Bill Rudick wrote:

atrain--of top importance is hips, then the hand/opponents arm NOT around the head.  The actual headlock around  is really nothing more than a guide when done right. Well, until he's on his back anyway.

I was at the Wilkes Open when Shane hit Wright.  It would have been a "five" in freestyle.  Quite beautiful.


I mean I'm not a freestyle ref but this doesn't look like 5 to me....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXzXZpsBMrM


Oh, definitely not. Guess ones memory can't be trusted sometimes...especially when you get older.  :-) Maybe it was the sight of a headlocker getting caught in one...people good at the headlock don't often get headlocked.

But,  it would be a three. 


Edited by Bill Rudick - Feb 08 2012 at 10:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fishwrestler7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2012 at 7:19am
oc springer didnt hit 2 headlocks on friday his fist pin was an inside trip for the fall, which is what i think your talking about, the other was a beautiful headlock one of the best i have ever seen. I have watched shane most of this year and he has really backed down from his headlock. If it is there he hits it but usually he works other things on his feet. I agree that the headlock cannot be a primary move in college but it still does work so just drop the subject. Everyone knows now that you think it doesnt work against higher level competition and do not recommend it for constant use
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSSR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2012 at 6:19am
This is why I bring up the subject of The Headlock. 2 very knowledgeable wrestling coaches, fans / fanatics seem to think differently about the headlock and it's use. It is most definitely a great equalizer and most definitely will get a quiet gym standing whether the fans are knowledgeable or Big ten wrestling commentators.   I think it's a wrestling fan favorite. 
In my brief wrestling career I remember our junior high coach (was an awesome coach) who showed us the basic moves and made a point to tell us  how some moves come almost natural to some while awkward to others and no 2 wrestlers are the same. He called it explosive execution and preached it daily. One of his favorite lines was." things become second nature after you have done them 100,000 times and not before". He also loved the headlock and so did most of our team. As a team we were undefeated 7th and 8th grades crushing most teams and getting mentioned in a national wrestling magazine, it was a big deal for all involved. Our gym was packed for every home dual meet even the faculty would come watch.
Then came high school the next year with a new stern coach who although he never wrestled new everything there was to about the sport. He was very dry and hard to get to know unlike our previous coach. HE HATED THE HEADLOCK! In his words it was; junk, crap, only a pee wee wrestling move, junior high move doesn't work in high school. I remember quite clearly the first wrestling meeting in high school, his exact quote,"forget the headlock we don't use that here". Most my ninth grade class just looked at each other in disgust. Went from a great coach to one who lived in HIS own box and don't dare go outside HIS box. Most of the team ended leaving the sport they loved for other sports including me. 
I have been a wrestling fan since and love the HEADLOCK it's a great move but it can't be your only move just part of your arsenal especially at the college level!
Coaches keep it fun it's not about you it's all about the wrestlers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DSSR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2012 at 5:29am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SixStringer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2012 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by oldcougar oldcougar wrote:

Originally posted by SixStringer SixStringer wrote:

Originally posted by oldcougar oldcougar wrote:

SixStringer (I've got a TwelveStringer myself) -
   My old coach used to tell us that if we had three moves we could be state champs - as long as we threw those three moves better than anyone else.  In fact I knew a guy who won states with only two moves, really: An unstoppable snap-down takedown and a brutal tight waist.  He was a lousy pinner but he was a state champ.

This, discussion, is about the headlock.  I just don't think a move that can mostly be blocked by a competent opponent should be the move you hang your hat on. 

It's as simple as that.
I need to pick up a 12 string for some songs.. lol
 
Again I would agree with you for MOST wrestlers.. But there are a few (like Springer) that make it work for them. I personally taught other techniques myself.. and my son was certainly not a headlocker.. lol
 
I had an assistant coach in college that was just a crazy defensive wrestler from his feet.. That was his thing. He would quite literally give you his leg... and he would always say. "You may have my leg.. But I have both your arms.."..lol Pretty much just as he launched you to your back.. Was it high percentage for the majority of wrestlers? um.. no. Did he pummel most everyone.. um.. yeah.. lol
 

I saw two of his headlocks on Friday night.  Both of them were pretty darn chancy, imo.  He really gets into a mano-a-mano confrontation with it and dares his opponent to out-muscle him.  Now he is a beast and way stronger than the kids he was wrestling.  But one of them (I forget which so don't ask) almost came out on top in one of those head-to-head struggles.  Yes, Shane ended up on top, and the other kid was pinned.  But there was a moment when the other kid could have ended up on top.  Had he been stronger or with better balance, he may well have done it.

My point:  That kind of 'forced' takedown - walking right up to the opponent, grabbing the head and trying to force him to his back - won't work well at the college level, imo.  Points are scored in transition, with movement and speed.  That overpowering stuff won't work nearly as well because guess what:  the other guys are beasts, too.

 
Again I don't disagree with you.. But I'll let you think about this.. WHen shane was a little kid everyone thought his headlocks and chin whips wouldn't work at the next level (i.e., HS).. Here we are 129 (and counting) pins later and it seems to be working "for him", including a state final (seemed to spook Alton a little bit). Who really knows if he will find success at the next level. He very well may adjust his style.. but he will ALWAYS be dangerous. He just has freaky hips.
 


Edited by SixStringer - Feb 07 2012 at 9:50pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldcougar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2012 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by SixStringer SixStringer wrote:

Originally posted by oldcougar oldcougar wrote:

SixStringer (I've got a TwelveStringer myself) -
   My old coach used to tell us that if we had three moves we could be state champs - as long as we threw those three moves better than anyone else.  In fact I knew a guy who won states with only two moves, really: An unstoppable snap-down takedown and a brutal tight waist.  He was a lousy pinner but he was a state champ.

This, discussion, is about the headlock.  I just don't think a move that can mostly be blocked by a competent opponent should be the move you hang your hat on. 

It's as simple as that.
I need to pick up a 12 string for some songs.. lol
 
Again I would agree with you for MOST wrestlers.. But there are a few (like Springer) that make it work for them. I personally taught other techniques myself.. and my son was certainly not a headlocker.. lol
 
I had an assistant coach in college that was just a crazy defensive wrestler from his feet.. That was his thing. He would quite literally give you his leg... and he would always say. "You may have my leg.. But I have both your arms.."..lol Pretty much just as he launched you to your back.. Was it high percentage for the majority of wrestlers? um.. no. Did he pummel most everyone.. um.. yeah.. lol
 

I saw two of his headlocks on Friday night.  Both of them were pretty darn chancy, imo.  He really gets into a mano-a-mano confrontation with it and dares his opponent to out-muscle him.  Now he is a beast and way stronger than the kids he was wrestling.  But one of them (I forget which so don't ask) almost came out on top in one of those head-to-head struggles.  Yes, Shane ended up on top, and the other kid was pinned.  But there was a moment when the other kid could have ended up on top.  Had he been stronger or with better balance, he may well have done it.

My point:  That kind of 'forced' takedown - walking right up to the opponent, grabbing the head and trying to force him to his back - won't work well at the college level, imo.  Points are scored in transition, with movement and speed.  That overpowering stuff won't work nearly as well because guess what:  the other guys are beasts, too.

 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SixStringer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2012 at 9:25pm
Originally posted by atrain31 atrain31 wrote:

Originally posted by 3lb3lb3 3lb3lb3 wrote:

i went to high school with a kid that only got pinned once in his entire career in HS and College.  It was by headlock.  He got hornswoggled by smith from Upper Perk.  His name now hangs with the rest of the victums at the UP gym. 


What was the victim's name? There are several state champs and all Americans on that board. My favorite Mark Smith pin was against Fryling. Was it him? He bumped up from 140 to 152 for that one.

Cliff Clavon little known fact - When Shane pinned Wright, that gave all 3 Smith's (2 brothers, 1 cousin) a win over a future NCAA champ. Mark pinned Jake Herbert, Devon beat Jarrod King by head locking him over and over to squeak out a one point win, and Shane pinned Wright.
That's kind of a dubious honor..lol But interesting.. ;)
 
I remember the Smith/Fryling match....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atrain31 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2012 at 9:10pm
Originally posted by 3lb3lb3 3lb3lb3 wrote:

i went to high school with a kid that only got pinned once in his entire career in HS and College.  It was by headlock.  He got hornswoggled by smith from Upper Perk.  His name now hangs with the rest of the victums at the UP gym. 


What was the victim's name? There are several state champs and all Americans on that board. My favorite Mark Smith pin was against Fryling. Was it him? He bumped up from 140 to 152 for that one.

Cliff Clavon little known fact - When Shane pinned Wright, that gave all 3 Smith's (2 brothers, 1 cousin) a win over a future NCAA champ. Mark pinned Jake Herbert, Devon beat Jarrod King by head locking him over and over to squeak out a one point win, and Shane pinned Wright.
Is this a real forum?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SixStringer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2012 at 9:03pm
Originally posted by oldcougar oldcougar wrote:

SixStringer (I've got a TwelveStringer myself) -
   My old coach used to tell us that if we had three moves we could be state champs - as long as we threw those three moves better than anyone else.  In fact I knew a guy who won states with only two moves, really: An unstoppable snap-down takedown and a brutal tight waist.  He was a lousy pinner but he was a state champ.

This, discussion, is about the headlock.  I just don't think a move that can mostly be blocked by a competent opponent should be the move you hang your hat on. 

It's as simple as that.
I need to pick up a 12 string for some songs.. lol
 
Again I would agree with you for MOST wrestlers.. But there are a few (like Springer) that make it work for them. I personally taught other techniques myself.. and my son was certainly not a headlocker.. lol
 
I had an assistant coach in college that was just a crazy defensive wrestler from his feet.. That was his thing. He would quite literally give you his leg... and he would always say. "You may have my leg.. But I have both your arms.."..lol Pretty much just as he launched you to your back.. Was it high percentage for the majority of wrestlers? um.. no. Did he pummel most everyone.. um.. yeah.. lol
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldcougar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2012 at 8:53pm
SixStringer (I've got a TwelveStringer myself) -
   My old coach used to tell us that if we had three moves we could be state champs - as long as we threw those three moves better than anyone else.  In fact I knew a guy who won states with only two moves, really: An unstoppable snap-down takedown and a brutal tight waist.  He was a lousy pinner but he was a state champ.

This, discussion, is about the headlock.  I just don't think a move that can mostly be blocked by a competent opponent should be the move you hang your hat on. 

It's as simple as that.


Edited by oldcougar - Feb 07 2012 at 8:54pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SixStringer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2012 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by oldcougar oldcougar wrote:

people don't 'hate it' as you said.  As a coach I tried to steer my kids away from depending on one move, regardless of what move it is.  The problem with the headlock is that it makes everything too easy.  A physical kid can overpower kids with less physicality with a headlock.

The problem is: physicality is relative.  Other kids grow up and grow stronger.  And further up the line there is always someone stronger, no matter how strong you are.  And the better the kid is you are wrestling, the more likely he can counter the headlock that is forced.

It is the kid who depends on the headlock that usually goes by the wayside.  No one will say that Mark Smith didn't have a great career.  But I will say that his dependence on the headlock limited that career to a point that he just couldn't get past.


Although I "generally" agree with you.. I don't agree with the statement regarding "relying on one move".. If it were a good single leg or high C we were talking about you "may" not make that statement.. And this convo may not even be ongoing..lol Wrestlers that perfect their style and have certain techniques that they are effective at.. People KNOW its coming and still can't stop it.  I guess if you are efficient at something it shouldn't matter what the technique is.
 
I don't recall any threads regarding someone relying on a sweep single..lol I guess we should take it for what it is. Some kids are just that good at certain things and others good at other techniques..
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Superman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2012 at 7:06pm
The main thing a headlock can teach is the importance and use of hips. If your are a good headlocker then it can help you in top and bottom as well. When on bottom you may get a Peppleman or anyone from CD that loves to tilt. A headlocker that knows how to use his hips is less likely to get caught in a tilt because tilts are about controlling hips. Same thing with legs. One thing everyone should agree on is that hips is key to wrestling. And a headlock teaches how to use and master your hips.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldcougar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2012 at 6:30pm
people don't 'hate it' as you said.  As a coach I tried to steer my kids away from depending on one move, regardless of what move it is.  The problem with the headlock is that it makes everything too easy.  A physical kid can overpower kids with less physicality with a headlock.

The problem is: physicality is relative.  Other kids grow up and grow stronger.  And further up the line there is always someone stronger, no matter how strong you are.  And the better the kid is you are wrestling, the more likely he can counter the headlock that is forced.

It is the kid who depends on the headlock that usually goes by the wayside.  No one will say that Mark Smith didn't have a great career.  But I will say that his dependence on the headlock limited that career to a point that he just couldn't get past.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CombatxSpeed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2012 at 6:21pm
headlock is a great move because its what i like to call an equalizer... it can come out of nowhere and ended a match immediately regardless of the score... a wrestler with a nice headlock is always a threat ti win.. people hate it cuz they dont know the fact that a kid who is losing by 10 points can beat someone out of nowhere...
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i went to high school with a kid that only got pinned once in his entire career in HS and College.  It was by headlock.  He got hornswoggled by smith from Upper Perk.  His name now hangs with the rest of the victums at the UP gym. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DB211 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2012 at 4:10pm
Tim Riley has as nasty of a headlock as anyone and he's found a good deal of success with it. I agree that there needs to be more to your repitoire than just a headlock, but it can get you a long way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SixStringer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2012 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by oldcougar oldcougar wrote:

Clark:

as I mentioned above, for guys like Smith (and Springer??), the headlock will work on plenty of kids in college.  But using it as your lead move will not work against the guys you really want to beat.
Your choices: be a headhunter and score a lot of dual meet points, but fizzle out when you get on the big stage -or- keep the headlock as one of many moves and become a complete wrestler that can go to the next level.

I really think it is as cut and dried as that.

Agreed.. QW is a NC.. on track to possibly repeat.. for example..
 
While we are talking about the next level.. The ability to ride and as a collary not get ridden out is EXTREMELY important.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldcougar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2012 at 3:21pm
Clark:

as I mentioned above, for guys like Smith (and Springer??), the headlock will work on plenty of kids in college.  But using it as your lead move will not work against the guys you really want to beat.
Your choices: be a headhunter and score a lot of dual meet points, but fizzle out when you get on the big stage -or- keep the headlock as one of many moves and become a complete wrestler that can go to the next level.

I really think it is as cut and dried as that.

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