PA-Wrestling.com
District 1 High School Wrestling
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Sectional Seeding
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Sectional Seeding

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Padad View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: Nov 15 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 299
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Padad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sectional Seeding
    Posted: Feb 07 2011 at 11:03am
Can someone explain how the seeding criteria is handled for the sectional tournaments and is it uniform among all sectionals?
 
Wins
Losses
Bonus Points
 
Back to Top
A16099 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: Dec 20 2007
Location: PA
Status: Offline
Points: 456
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A16099 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2011 at 11:18am

Below is the formula. The seeding criteria is the same for all sections. The OPC will handle the calculations for all wrestlers.

Post Season Seeding
Criteria #1 – Percentage record of this season’s varsity bouts – won/loss record
Points:   1 point for win
Divide:   Points scored by total bouts
Example 1:  record 15 wins – 5 losses    15/20 = 75pts
Example 2:  record 12 wins – 17 losses   12/29 = 41pts
Must have 12 bouts minimum to get full points… If not, subtract 8 points for each bout under 12
Example 3: record 6 wins – 2 losses   6/8 = 75 – 32 = 43
Note:  Always round out to two decimal points
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Criteria #2 – Prestige points (awards bonus points for wrestler’s previous year)
State Champ 100
2nd  95
3rd  90
4th  85
5th  80
6th  75
7th  70
8th  65
Reg. Champ 60
2nd  50
3rd  45
4th  40
5th  35
6th  30
Dist. Champ 25
2nd  20
3rd  15
4th  10
5th  9
6th  8
Sec. Champ 7
2nd  5
3rd  3
4th  1
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Criteria #3 – Caliber of wrestler’s competition this season
Bonus points are awarded for competing against last year’s medal winners
( Regionals, States) Only for Pa Wrestlers
  Win   Loss
States:
Champion 50   4
2nd  48   4  
3rd  45   4  
4th  43   4  
5th  40   4   
6th  38   4  
7th  35   4  
8th  33   4  
Regionals
Champion 30   3  
2nd  25   3  
3rd  23   3  
4th  20   3  
5th  18   2   
6th  15   2
Back to Top
NAHS78 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: Feb 11 2008
Location: Norristown, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 426
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NAHS78 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2011 at 12:21pm
I believe matches from District and State Duals do not count towards seeding.
Back to Top
confidence View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics


Joined: Oct 14 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 1044
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote confidence Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2011 at 1:46pm
Kind of crazy if they don't count those win/loss matches considering they counted your weigh ins for progression. Shouldn't be able to do one without the other.
Back to Top
SixStringer View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics


Joined: Jan 11 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1344
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SixStringer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2011 at 8:45pm
Originally posted by confidence confidence wrote:

Kind of crazy if they don't count those win/loss matches considering they counted your weigh ins for progression. Shouldn't be able to do one without the other.
 
They don't count against competition points.. So wrestlers on teams entered into the duals effectively get more competitions.. so they are NOT counted for seeding purposes..
 


Edited by SixStringer - Feb 07 2011 at 10:06pm
Back to Top
A16099 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: Dec 20 2007
Location: PA
Status: Offline
Points: 456
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A16099 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 07 2011 at 10:04pm
Originally posted by confidence confidence wrote:

Kind of crazy if they don't count those win/loss matches considering they counted your weigh ins for progression. Shouldn't be able to do one without the other.
Not every team gets into the duals so they can't count towards seeding. As for the weight loss plan, it is a necessary evil. You can't have a kid drop or gain weight for a match and expect it not to count. I figure most guys want to be down at their minimum weight so they would be smart about it. Yeah District & State Duals are a team event, but this time of year coaches are looking for what is best for their wrestlers for the individual post season.
Back to Top
Moses View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: Feb 25 2009
Location: Mt. Sinai
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moses Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2011 at 12:26pm
 I know a few teams from AA last year are in AAA sectionals this year. How do the D1 AA wrestlers from last years Prestige points translate to this year?
Thou shalt not steal . . .
Back to Top
TMRHS View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: Dec 09 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 261
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TMRHS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2011 at 12:37pm
Originally posted by Moses Moses wrote:

 I know a few teams from AA last year are in AAA sectionals this year. How do the D1 AA wrestlers from last years Prestige points translate to this year?

Same as AAA
Back to Top
SixStringer View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics


Joined: Jan 11 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1344
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SixStringer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2011 at 12:38pm
Yeah.. Why would they be any different?
Back to Top
Moses View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: Feb 25 2009
Location: Mt. Sinai
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moses Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2011 at 4:07pm
Level of difficulty, and competition, the amounts of teams that participated and only the top 3 placed and advanced vs. top 5 placing and advancing in AAA districts last year. Would a 3rd place from the AA district tournament be equal to taking 3rd in AAA? And would the 4th place wrestlers that didn't advance in AA get prestige points for taking 4th place?
Thou shalt not steal . . .
Back to Top
idc2 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: Feb 08 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 282
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idc2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2011 at 6:04pm
Originally posted by SixStringer SixStringer wrote:

Yeah.. Why would they be any different?

Well for starters there is no AA sectionals, so they automatically start at districts, which is a pretty significant advantage when it comes to prestige points.  Last year there were 13 teams in the AA district tournament, and very few of them sent full teams, with most weight classes having 8-9 guys.  Compare that to D1 South who had 32 teams compete in its 3 sections and D1 North who had 29.

In my opinion, they should give the exact same points for AA states and regionals as they do for AAA, and just make AA districts the equivalent of AAA sectionals, so 7-5-3-1.  I think that's fair considering if you ranked the difficulty of all 6 sections and AA districts, I'm pretty sure AA districts would be by far the easiest.
Back to Top
Moses View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie
Avatar

Joined: Feb 25 2009
Location: Mt. Sinai
Status: Offline
Points: 17
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moses Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2011 at 6:16pm
Thats why I brought it up. I was wondering if anybody had even taken it into account or thought about it.
Thou shalt not steal . . .
Back to Top
mcd72 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: Jan 13 2009
Location: Coatesville`
Status: Offline
Points: 184
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcd72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2011 at 7:23pm
Moses and others make some valid points. However, to change the point system at this point for the two AA schools that are now AAA would be totally discriminatory and judgmental. I agree, due to # of schools and having no sectional tournament, that the AA wrestler had an advantage to get more prestige points last year.   Can you automatically assume all of those wrestlers could not have placed just as high were they AAA? No.   
Example: I coached a AA wrestler last year that won by major decision over a AAA SE Regional Champ, just a few weeks before the postseason. He did not qualify for AA states. Do I think he would have had advantage to being in AAA last year? Yes. Can I prove he would have? No. I know you could make countless arguments the other way, but you have no facts to prove it, only speculation.
There are flaws to every system. I agree this is one possible flaw, but every system has flaws and next year it will be a non-issue.
The bottom line is to advance out of any tournament you have to be the better wrestler.   Will extra points help seeding? Absolutely, but if the wrestler is a higher seed and cannot wrestle better than his opponent; he won’t win.
Sorry for the rant.   
Good luck to all wrestlers this postseason.
Back to Top
SixStringer View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics


Joined: Jan 11 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 1344
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SixStringer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2011 at 9:27pm

OF the wrestlers that moved from AA to AAA.. how many of them does this even effect (i.e., placed at states, regionals, districts).. etc.. where it even matters...

As someone pointed out. It's only two teams. Not even worth talking about..
 
Back to Top
CoachDPark View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics


Joined: Feb 14 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 684
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CoachDPark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2011 at 10:11pm
The following former AA Wrestlers that will be getting Prestige points for last years placements.

Doesn't really look like its going to have that much of an effect if you ask me...

Octorara

Bo Johnstone District Champ
Brandon Arnsberger 8th at States
Josh Bowman District Champ
Tyler Helms District Champ
Zach Gregor District 2nd
Brandon Christianson District 3rd
Matt Harper District 2nd

Harriton
Elliot Levy District 4th
Zack Geaneotes District 2nd
Haddon Corbett District Champ


Back to Top
idc2 View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: Feb 08 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 282
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote idc2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2011 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by CoachDPark CoachDPark wrote:

Doesn't really look like its going to have that much of an effect if you ask me...

Octorara

Bo Johnstone District Champ (1-2, beat another D1 kid in wrestlebacks)
Brandon Arnsberger 8th at States (3-2, took 5th at AA regionals)
Josh Bowman District Champ (1-2, beat another D1 kid in wrestlebacks)
Tyler Helms District Champ (1-2, beat another D1 kid in wrestlebacks)
Zach Gregor District 2nd (0-2)
Brandon Christianson District 3rd (0-2)
Matt Harper District 2nd (1-2)

Harriton
Elliot Levy District 4th
Zack Geaneotes District 2nd (0-2)
Haddon Corbett District Champ (1-2, beat another D1 kid in wrestlebacks)



In bold are how the D1 kids did at AA regionals.  With the exception of Arnsberger, the 8 other regional qualifiers together won only one match against non-D1 competition.

Just as an example, Zach Gregor, who this site lists as having an 8-9 record (and an 8-14 record last year when he finished 2nd at AA districts), will get 47 points (8/17=.471 winning percentage) + the 20 prestige points for being a district runner up, giving him 67 seeding points, which would put him ahead of a kid with a 20-10 record.  So he goes from being a likely #6-#8 seed depending on how strong the weight class is to being a likely top 3 seed.  

Now, not all of them will be that drastic, but I imagine a lot of those kids will jump up several seeds because of all the extra bonus points they get for placing in a very weak AA District tournament.  I think Arnsberger deserves every one of the 65 prestige points he's going to get for finishing 8th in the state, which is why I think we should keep regional/state prestige points the same.  However, I think the rest of them should get the equivalent of sectional seeding points (1st - 7, 2nd - 5, 3rd - 3, 4th - 1) instead of the district seeding points (1st - 25, 2nd - 20, 3rd - 15, 4th - 10, 5th - 9, 6th - 8), I think that's a fair compromise.

And come to think of it, the AA district tournament only placed the top 4, so do the wrestlers that lost in the consi-semis get 5th/6th place points?  Some of the weight classes at AA districts only had 6 or 7 kids in them, so they would basically get more prestige points than a sectional champ just for showing up and going 0-2.
Back to Top
Bill Rudick View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics


Joined: Feb 12 2008
Location: Quarryville, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 1032
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Rudick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 08 2011 at 11:24pm
Even if ALL of them are that drastic, let's be real here:  if your seed at sectionals is going to be a big factor in how far you get in the post season, you probably aren't going very far in the post season.

the 8-9 guy isn't going further just because of his seed--he'll still lose to the 20-10 guy.  And if the 20-10 guy is actually good, he'll wrestle higher than his seed. 

However, I admit that I do agree with the basic premise--same for states/regionals, same districts/sectionals, based on fairness alone.
www.rudickimages.photoreflect.com
Back to Top
Holtjack View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics
Avatar

Joined: Jan 29 2010
Location: Collegeville
Status: Offline
Points: 943
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Holtjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 09 2011 at 12:56am

Here’s an example of where the additional prestige points will definitely affect seeding; the likely #1 and #2 seeds in Section 3 @ 189 lbs.

 

#1 Haddon Corbett (Harriton) 31-0

#2 Larry Gordon (Norristown) 32-4 (effective record, 36-5 actual record less 4-1 in post-season duals)

 

Calculations:

 

Corbett 31 W, 0 L = 100 pts, + 25 Prestige (District Champion), + 18 Prestige win (Brian Curless, Great Valley, 5th Region) = 143 points

 

Gordon 32 W, 4 L = 89 pts, + 3 Prestige (Sectional 3rd), + 25 Prestige win (Ryan Hembury, Muncy, 2nd Region), + 20 Prestige win (Tim Riley, CR South, 4th Region) = 137 points

 

And, like Bill said, so what?

 

I don’t think either Haddon or Larry care which of them is seeded higher, barring an upset they’ll decide who’s the better wrestler the evening of the 19th. Haddon has even more an incentive to win because he’s been ranked lower than Gordon (and others) much of the year and probably feels he’s been dissed. And sometimes getting the top seed by that route isn’t so great; Eliot Levy will almost certainly be #1 at 135 lbs. in Section Three if he stays there, which means if my rough calculations are correct he’ll get to play with either Pat Fennell or Mike Springer in the semis. For the few times a crossover AA gets a higher seed because of his ‘unearned’ prestige points in an ‘easy’ AA tournament, I can dig up plenty of examples of AAA wrestlers who rolled into sections with impressive season and career records and crawled home with a low medal (or none). It’s like the seeding in the District Duals: when all the screaming and shouting and wrestling was done the top four seeds were the teams to make the state duals (if not precisely in order). The best will generally come to the top. What the new system will do is prevent what happened all too often in the AA tournament, where the huge discrepancy in schedule strength led to some interesting results. Does anybody remember Mike Gregor, District Champion?

Those who forget the past need to read some history books!
Back to Top
Bill Rudick View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics


Joined: Feb 12 2008
Location: Quarryville, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 1032
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill Rudick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 09 2011 at 1:06am
Mike Gregor--twice the wins in Districts (4) as the whole regular season (2), and District champ.

Bean is one of my favorite kids ever.  Be nice.
www.rudickimages.photoreflect.com
Back to Top
Holtjack View Drop Down
Fanatics
Fanatics
Avatar

Joined: Jan 29 2010
Location: Collegeville
Status: Offline
Points: 943
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Holtjack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb 09 2011 at 1:35am
I didn't mention him to belittle him (you know I would not), but merely as one of the best examples I can remember of the flaws of the previous seeding system. When you go major-fall-tech-decision over four wrestlers with 48 aggregate wins coming in it doesn't speak well for their strength of schedule (although well for yours). I remember back in the 70's Pottsgrove and Perk Valley had the same problem with seeding, wrestling in the Ches-Mont and Bux-Mont and then getting screwed in the seeding when they competed in the post-season. Which reminds me of another great example of performing far above your record; the one-handed wrestler Darryl Mussleman, Bill Neill's classmate, who entered the post-season 2-11 and damn near made states.
Those who forget the past need to read some history books!
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Copyright © 2019 PA-Wrestling.com LLC  |  Privacy Policy